How do I confirm a fund's AUM?
Firm told me in person at first interview that they manage roughly ~$1.5bn, this was only one month ago.
On 13F filings I see it is closer to $100mn and has been in decline for a bit, but I go: "ok this makes sense because I know they have a LO fund, a L/S fund, and a handful of other strategies, etc. - probably only capturing one of many strategies here...and maybe they opened new funds and shifted money around over the years..."
Recently looked at the updated ADV part 2 filing, and it says only ~$300mn in assets under management. Now I am a bit worried. Could have sworn the previous ADV part 2 said +$1.5bn but I don't know how to find historic filings of part 2s.
Without waiting until the next interview to confirm with them, what is the best way to confirm AUM? Don't want to reveal name of firm here, but I know this firm runs multiple strategies - is the adv part 2 form the sum total of anything they can manage/ charge a fee for? https://aum13f.com/ still shows 1.5bn but it looks like it is as of March 2022 adv part 2 that I swore I saw previously...
Why would they lie in the interview with me if it is really not 1.5bn - this firm has been around a long time...
Anyone with preqin or access to fund returns/other data, can I send you a DM? lol
Does the $1.5B include leverage?
No idea - all I have is a 13f that has ~$150mn, an ADV part 2 form that shows ~$350mn, my belief that last years adv might have said $1.5bn but not 100% sure, and them telling me in the interview that they manage ~$1.5bn. I can confirm they manage at least 5 "separate" strategies (LO, L/S, international focuses, etc.)
As of a few years ago they were mentioned in a few articles for managing between 1.5-1.9bn.
Part debt or credit? Try 13F-HR, 13F-NT
all equities! thats what im saying man! Did this fund implode in one week after my interview? lol
One week after my interview the new adv part 2 was filed...
EDIT - not a combination report, it says all holdings report...
Hmm. Could it be that they also have a large arm of private funds? Check if there is a form PF
make an account on radient analytics to read the part 2 advs.
keep in mind the RAUM listed on those forms usually includes leverage, i.e., short positions, so inflated. 13-F filings can be inaccurate if they invest abroad or use swaps for exposure.
how is that any different than looking at the part 2 advs directly on adviserinfor.sec.gov? The radiant analytics website shows the same thing I see in those forms - i haven't logged in yet but it looks like it just pulls from that form...
Newbie question but could it be international holdings?
OP with update! It appears that the biggest discrepancy between previous ADV forms is that they did not include non-discretionary AUM on their ADV form for this period... Seems a bit weird honestly. Can't imagine they would be hiring right now if they just lost out on ~950mn of AUM so who knows whats up... Radiant if you sign up for free trial really helped for that info, so thanks everyone!
1) non-US equity positions
2) equity positions held in some offshore entities that aren't required to file 13Fs (my fund's case)
Could it be they have slowly been transitioning their funds from onshore to offshore vehicles over the lase few years? (I know this is impossible to know, but curious if this logic makes sense...)
Can off-shore sometimes be considered non-discretionary AUM through weird holding structures (even though they really are running it all its just some obscure structure)
Yes, pretty easily, especially when the funds' primary beneficiaries and investors are/receive most money overseas
OP again - I am still in the interview process but next step is the case study, and I don't want to ask when I walk in: "hey before I do this case, do you want to confirm your aum cus I am skeptical of you guys!"
Just really confused still. The comparison of multiple years of ADV part 2 forms shows that Discretionary AUM was declining the last few years and non-discretionary was growing significantly (so total firm AUM remained in the 1.5bn range). Then the 2023 form shows 0 for non-discretionary AUM, and 0 for for anything else on the form that would indicate they manage money elsewhere ("other BDC investment pools", etc. etc.)
So you are saying that a firm can still manage a decent portion of money yet there ADV captures none of it at all?
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