Panic attacks this week
I’m normally very calm, composed and rational. Been in this game for years managing sleeve for many years and a full portfolio over the last three years. Manage 2-3bn GMV. Was up 1-2% of that but since mid Feb have been drawing down hard and now in the -1-2% range. This has been the worst I’ve experienced in terms of speed and magnitude of drawdowns. Everyone thinks the PM should know what to do and I can keep that confident image but I haven’t been able to sleep or do anything the last two weeks as I don’t actually know what to do or how to trade this market anymore. It’s the first time my portfolio hedges aren’t working the way they should. Have historically weathered factor rotations perfectly fine but this seems different. Things really exacerbated last few days and am degrossing now. This whole episode has been extremely embarrassing. I’m feeling sad, anxious and alone now. Just a rant from your mid 30s PM.
No advice sadly, but I'm sorry to hear that. Perhaps see a therapist or get some form of help?
Nah no worries. And yep on that, appreciate it.
These get easier with more experience and going through these types of market events a few times.
Just remember, it’s darkest right before dawn. We’ve been through a rough patch and I’ve typically found that the best bets that I’ve made in my career were those when I felt the absolute sickest. When you want to vomit is when you really want to size up.
Ignore title at a SM HF
Everyone I know on the street feels the same way. Maybe sucks I can't offer any actionable advice but you're definitely not alone. Crowding factor / correlations between every hedge fund is unreal.
It sucks. We've been holding up okay but still experienced a wild Thursday. Degross and protect capital, factor unwind and US selling will persist for some time IMO. As US policy diverges from the world, carry implosions will exacerbate moves. Think 2022.
Yeah 2022 is the cautionary tale that no one wants to get stuck in again.
might want to recalc your sigmas if 22 is the worry.
Without going too much into detail, what went against you, and why didn't your hedges work (if you know)?
Good God, it's like it's pouring outside and you ask me why I'm wet.
Welcome back legend.
Hey, you’re definitely not alone in this. All the popular HF longs got crushed, shorts outperformed, and HF degrossing just made it worse. No one really knows what to do. My two cents—violent market corrections happen from time to time, and fundamentally, not much has changed (maybe a bit of a growth scare?). Stay strong, don’t overtrade, and if you can, add some defensive positions like Telcos or Healthcare, or go for safer/value plays in your sector. If history tells us anything, this correction should be about done.
do ppl in equities still see telco's as defensive (outside the top 3 names)? in HY, it's one of the highest beta sectors... massive transition and disruption and encroachment by adjacent/overlapping players.... one of the least defensive sectors...
shouldve been in prop trading lol you wouldve had a field day
Best panic / anxiety attack advice I can give (and it sounded insane to me when I first heard it), get an ice pack or just ice cube and put it on your neck.
Has something to do with calming your system down and it works pretty quickly.
you lived through - presumably- 2018 2020 2022, why is this time so different?
because he's the PM now
This one has just been more violent and doesn't seem to end. Day after day after day...
Sorry not to be insensitive, but isn’t being down 1% in this tape pretty manageable / understandable? I imagine there are teams that are down more than that (depending on sector), vs flat or down 1% in this tape provides opportunity to play offense when many others can’t? Maybe a glass half full approach…
If you went from +1-2% to -1-2% at a MM, you're standing at the edge of getting cut. Fact that it happenned in just 1 month makes it even worse.
Don't mean to stress out OP further, but if you think it's no big deal, you don't understand how most MMs work.
Depends on the shop. I disagree “most MMs” work that way.
Pardon my ignorance but when we talk about drawdown %s, how is that measured? Current level vs. most recent peak?
Thanks. MMPM and you are both correct. It’s the 2-4% drawdown in couple weeks which is the problem. Not the fact that I’m “only” -1%. Also my book size ramped up a bunch this year so the absolute dollars just feel so much bigger (2-3bn might not be a lot for some but it’s the most I’ve managed to date). I work at an MM-like structure but not MM exactly. One of those pod-like places that pretend we’re more long term. Had a conversation with “senior people” today and they’re happy to keep risk limits looser as they want to leave opportunity to “play offense” and be more “long term” instead of liquidating blindly into this event. Was surprised.
are we talking a holocene type structure?
Pod-like places that pretend we’re long term — that’s a pretty good description actually, I LOLed
"play offense" = you can roll the dice one more time
2-3 bn is not a lot ?
fucking orange man
You are not alone. There is nothing to be embarrassed about.
The first thing you need to do is get your confidence back.
You did not make it to this point by pure luck. You are highly talented, hard working investment professional, willing to put the work in and learn from his mistakes.
If you make a comeback, it will be an epic success story.
If you blow out, you will get a few months off to take a step back, stop trading, enjoy your personal life in a way you might not get the chance to otherwise for several years and do a deep dive to learn how to manage differently in the future. In that downside case, you will certainly be picked up by another pod shop and offered the opportunity to manage risk again.
It is not constructive to think in terms of "game over". You're just on to the next season, whether you come home with the championship or not.
I highly, highly recommend "The Mental Game of Baseball". It saved my neck when I was thinking myself in knots.
OP here. Thanks for this. Apart from the bounce today, this also made me feel much better. Appreciate you spending time to write this up. I’ll get on it.
Go for it champ! There are plentyful waves to ride, just get back on the board
Just to be clear, I find it great, that you are picking up and coming again. It takes courage, after the difficult market situation, and I celebrate OP to be finding his stride again. Well done, keep walking forward and best of luck ahead!
were tanking again are you freaking out again
did u get sh0t
My background is in mental health. I’ve worked with patients with all backgrounds - bankers, lawyers, doctors, etc.
You’re only a few years younger than me, but consider having a therapist or see a psychologist (not psychiatrist, yet…until it becomes a medical necessity). At that point, medications and a treatment plan will be the best bet.
Therapists or having someone to help you layout a map as to why you feel this way will be a tremendous benefit to you.
Markets suck right now, and most of the time it’s not your fault and stuff happens, even if you do everything right. There are threads on here with pods imploding.
Since you have had panic attacks through the week, it’s worth talking to a professional.
PM me if you’d like to chat. This also goes for all WSO users who need help.
lol
sorry to hear this.. may you receive all possible treatments.. try meditating that helps
Hey man, I have no HF experience but can tell you at the end of the day what matters is how you treat people. You get up, be kind to wifey or gf, be nice to barista, smile to your waitress give her a good tip, be nice to your coworkers even if shit is hitting the fan. Life seems like it is all about performance at work, but it really comes down to how you treat people.
facts
Odit dolorum exercitationem necessitatibus aperiam magni est. Voluptatem qui perspiciatis dolores voluptatum adipisci earum animi. Assumenda explicabo ab consectetur esse rem ut. Sit vero natus et reiciendis. Et reiciendis id in omnis. Autem sed et aut amet impedit qui magni beatae. Doloribus est iste nam alias consequatur et nihil.
Incidunt voluptas doloremque a vel velit et itaque. Iusto illo suscipit voluptatem labore quae voluptatibus labore voluptate. In consectetur corporis et cumque excepturi sunt doloribus.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Veniam vero quis ipsum placeat et adipisci explicabo similique. Illo nostrum quis rerum porro esse numquam. Molestiae odit quod consequatur iure eaque possimus fugit exercitationem.
Minima ut sint dolor quod recusandae et numquam. Laudantium error autem ut ipsam occaecati. Recusandae beatae quae dolor est repellendus. Quo culpa assumenda iste voluptas. Aut laudantium assumenda ratione nihil.
Nobis repellendus vel nisi. Doloremque dignissimos eos eos aperiam dolores. Quo nesciunt in non enim ducimus provident et aliquid.
Ut exercitationem corporis vel consequatur labore ipsam. In consequuntur sit animi. Qui ratione error ea occaecati nam. Dolor fugiat repellendus architecto. Eum veritatis fuga aliquid nostrum ea assumenda.
Vel officia nemo ab aut distinctio et ea. Reiciendis architecto ea non ad maxime sunt. Ducimus mollitia veritatis inventore dolores. Quis quibusdam quia alias et voluptatem maxime voluptas. Suscipit alias quam eos repudiandae.