Some of the multi managers seem to have a reputation for churning through employees, evident by their heavy emphasis on recruiting lots.
question is, where do these ‘churns’ go to? Surely they aren’t moving funds - do they normally leave the industry entirely, or go back to their ‘original’ area if not an analyst hedgie (e.g. back to M&A, ER, S&T)
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Most of them just go to another MMHF (personal experience)
why would another fund take them over new talent if they don't have a great record of performing well?
It’s available talent that has buy-side experience running a book regardless of performance and another fund is willing to take a shot on them.
In terms of new talent, sell-sidders making the transition are seen as a riskier bet and If you are making money in the current seat there’s less incentive to leave if you are performing well.
A pretty typical outcome for a failed MMHF PM is someone who made like +1% one year and -1% the next year on gross. Here's some ways you can spin the mediocre performance
1. some parts of your book did well some did poorly and it took you 2 years to learn what you were good at. at the next shop you promise to stick to my area of expertise.
2. you take a lower ranked job (as senior analyst or sub-PM). You still have lots of relevant experience for these kinds of roles
3. in some spectacular blowups, you can argue it was bad luck. I personally don't buy these excuses, but bdev often does.
4. lack of support from the management (no data, slow execution, conflicts with other PMs over limits, no budget to hire analysts) made it impossible to implement your vision
If only there were something like a social network where one could see people's career history..
del
100%. That's why I use Snapchat
Fr can’t believe ppl asking these questions when u can just see on BeReal
Could be a decent move to migrate your LinkedIn over to OnlyFans once you begin running your own book at one of the more prominent shops. Can get headhunters to pay a $50/mo retainer plus $150/min (double for full-nude) for customized responses to vacancy inquiries
(Ignore tag, am doing SS ER, friends in MMHF. Was headhunted but decided against it due to me simply not being that good and job security issues). Many of my friends know of people (some of themselves are applicable in the following context) who are seemingly at MMHFs on LinkedIn, but are actually no longer with the firm. Sometimes it’s other MMHFs, others who aren’t as lucky/good go to much smaller shops/family offices/change career tracks entirely, but they stop using LinkedIn. Not exactly sure why that’s the case, but some of my friends admitted some of it is due to shame. Imagine going from Citadel to some no-name shop or just not wanting to be harassed by people on LI too. So not exactly a very dumb question per se. Now to add some answers, investor relations for corporate (those you spoke to management before/have relations with/covered them in depth), certain corporate strategy roles (not that much I know of, an anecdotal one or two), smaller funds (single manager or whatever) or they just leave the industry entirely if they earned enough before getting kicked.
Edit: And yes like someone else mentioned, SWFs and LOs are definitely open too. I personally think SWFs is a bit more chill and more open to less senior MMHF hires (the ones I remember is like 2/3 YOE at most?)
God bless you if you’re struggling to use LinkedIn.
and the standard “path” for churns would look something like: MMHF 1 -> MMHF 2 -> MMHF 3 -> sellside ER/IR/out of industry
generally if/when you churn and never quite make it to pm my understanding is you get a couple shots at competitors
You guys are overestimating how common blow-ups are, especially at big4 pod shops. That don’t happen nearly as often as you think. Anyway…exits I’ve seen:
- other pods
- PM or sr analyst at LO or FO or SWF (these tend to be really awesome exits because pay is excellent/stress free)
- SMs
- sellside / research firm
- CFO at a startup or larger co
- coach / more managerial role at MMHF
Agree with your exits. Disagree with overestimate.
I underestimated until my PM got blown out :(
Was your PM a fresh/first timer, or a historically consistent moneymaker that got blown out?
I might be an outlier but I tend to agree that people like to overestimate the blow ups at those funds.
I'm at a big 4 and I've seen an uptick in firings in the last 6 months, but the last 1/2 years were pretty calm.
Verition
Do they have a reputation or cutting PMs quickly?
Reputation of hiring PMs who were cut
Walleye
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