Alumni just don't care
Hi all. Just wrapped up a rough recruiting season this week with a MM offer. It's been a long half year prepping and networking, so I'm obviously psyched that everything worked out.
I come from a very non-traditional background and a non-target (though we do have a great number of alum in all over top banks all over the street), so without a doubt I had a ton of help from the alum from my school in getting my resume in front of HR to begin with.
But that's something I want to ask the good ol audience of WSO. Let me explain:
I can't name one alum outside my MM that has been even close to that helpful. Looking back on my process, I can't tell you how many times the 3 alum or less at any given bank couldn't be reached week after week. I'm talking about four, five, six follow up emails. I literally cold called 5 random first years at one BB I was really interested in before I managed to get ahold of the one recent alum from my school—and that was because the other guy I called knew the alum from my school personally.
And don't even get me started about helping with the process. One random analyst I cold emailed ended up pushing things along for me and found out more about the timeline within the span of a day. The MD from my school promised to connect me with others and then ignored my three emails following up.
I don't share a lot in common with some of these guys. I'm not diversity, not an athlete, didn't go to a prep school. I might come off as a sore loser on this post, but I remember it being so frustrating to know that your options are more or less limited by the coin toss of getting those 3 alumni from your school to pick up the phone.
Do some people just not care about paying it forward?
EDIT: After many comments, I ADMIT: I was wrong. Maybe I was a little frustrated and entitled at the time, point taken. Why pay for therapy when you have the good old community of WSO to get me right. On the road to reform!
Unfortunately yes
There are douchebags that do not care about helping others or say they are too busy to respond. I work at a well known sweatshop on this site and still make time to schedule calls with non target and target students.
MDs are hit or miss though - they are usually dealing with their own issues so it is best to assume they will not respond.
Respect to you. I hope you sleep a little better at night you're helping some random kid reach his dream job lol
That's completely understandable, and I get that maybe my resume wasn't as competitive or I wasn't as tasty of a candidate. But damn at least pick up the phone to meet me for 15 mins? Mind you these emails go as far back as June
What types of emails are you sending? Are they well written, thoughtful, have you done your research on each person you're talking to?
You say you follow up 5-6 times, that is definitely excessive. After max 3, take the hint.
Also, do you have a profile picture on your LinkedIn and email? That should help. And is it tasteful? Try and stay conservative. Blue/gray suit, white shirt, and wear a non-flashy tie in a traditional knot.
Reading back on your post, it seems like you made it. 1 MM offer is all it takes to break in. Tbh, your experience is not that dissimilar from other non-targets trying to break in. It's definitely not daisies and roses for others either.
Interesting thread. Another issue to contemplate is expectations. I'm in the sales world and looking for a job is selling (sometimes at it's highest level). You are selling an intangible , the experience / relationships / acumen / effectiveness you will have on all stakeholders. So there's getting you right, but there is also your expectations.
Just because we're excited to meet with people when we're looking for a job, doesn't mean they're excited to meet you. It also doesn't mean they're a jerk if they ignore you (although I would much rather receive a short email stating their inability / lack of interest in helping so as to not keep on pestering them). When you're cold calling, it's unrealistic to expect a high percentage of response. Anything north of 10% is actually quite good. Of course the numbers go up the closer you get to the person (i.e. a referral). Think about it. They're going about their business/ schedule and all of a sudden they get an unsolicited request to meet / speak with you. Probably the last thing they want to do and now they have a perceived obligation to handle you one way or another. Even telling you know is a pain because it requires their attention and they didn't ask for that job, you thrust it on them.
Now some will be more than willing to help you, pay it forward, whatever. Just don't assume that's the norm because it isn't. Some schools are known for having a fierce alumni. That's a real benefit as they know the value of the aid they provide and likely benefited from it. They also contribute to their alma mater financially and have an emotional tie to feeding the system. Again, not the norm.
A real issue, apologies for sounding like an old crankster, is today's youth sensing their self importance above other's needs. Just assuming someone wants to help you is setting the wrong expectations. Assume you have to give them good reasons to help you. Not saying you didn't or haven't, just painting a realistic picture. I don't know about you but I get cold emailed, texted, VMed all day every day. I probably delete / ignore more than 95% of them because I didn't ask to be bothered.
Now if someone impresses me, or is referred to me, or leverages a relationship with me, or X, I am all over it and genuinely want to help. In fact I go out of my way to help. Yet 90-95% of the cold touches never see that. It's just reality.
this comes off as arrogant. you are expecting people to do something for you, no matter how menial it may seem to you, you're expecting a favor. 15 minutes may not seem like a lot to you but a full-time banker may see that differently. Even if they have all the time in the world, they have no obligation to assist you in any way. If you expect life to go your way and spoon feed you, you're never going to last on Wall Street/any high stakes environment. Be humble and don't expect shit from anyone.
All that being said, it seems like you are driven and you are doing a good job of putting yourself out there with the effort you make for networking. As a non-target from a non-prep school/non-diversity/non-athlete who just went through recruiting season too, I feel for you. It does suck that other kids are getting help and you feel like you're out on your own. But that is life, we may have it tougher than others but that's what sets us apart. Use it to your advantage. Congrats on the offer, go get em.