Could use some job search strategy advice

It was my understanding that many MBA programs promote non-disclosure of grades but this may only be at top schools.

I'm switching careers. I have no finance work background. I hear some banks will toss you in as an Associate just because you have an MBA. I think differnt banks have differnt rules. I just don't want to be passed over for a position just because I've got this high falutin MBA thingy. Its just paper.

I'm more than happy to keep my mouth shut about my GPA but what do you do when in the job announcement they say they want a min of 3.0? Ya think they just assume you've got that because you've tossed your hat in the ring? The whole thing is kinda weird because what are they going to do? Ask for your transcript?!

Yes.

1) You should be going for associate level postitions after your MBA. Almost all banks work this way - they can get plenty of fresh grads to fill their analyst roles. As a new associate, they won't staff you with an analyst and you'll be doing analyst work to get up the learning curve for the first 6 months, so there's NO reason to a post-MBA analyst (unless you actually want to be paid less).

2) They will most definitely ask for your transcript (most likely after they've extended an offer) so don't lie about your GPA. My recommendation would be to find some kind of subsect of your GPA like "finance-related GPA: xx" that meets the threshold. Although you'll most likely have to explain this at some point, it's worth it to get your resume in the door and past the HR minimum GPA screens. If these banks post minimum GPA requirements, they're going to throw out anything with a lower GPA or a GPA not listed.

3) Get some advice on your resume. In my opinion, you shouldn't have any sort of objective statement on the resume. The banks know what your objective is and don't need to read some BS statement. These are antiquated and will only limit your scope in applying for positions or require time to continuously adapt them to the jobs you're applying to (which it seems like it has already done.) Make your resume speak towards your interest in finance and you should be able to shoot it off to investment & commercial banks. On that note, most of the small boutiques you're vying for won't have both an investment bank and a commercial bank so applying across divisions shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Sorry for the length.

falcon00] ...looking for an investment banking position or barring that a position as a commercial banker as that often leads to a position at an IBank later on.</p> <p>[quote=falcon00] My first issue is my <span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/canadian-grades-to-gpa>GPA</a></span>. Its not a 4.0 so I don’t bother putting it on my resume as I consider it irrelevant.</p> <p>[quote=falcon00:

On my resume my objective statement is ...

Based on these three statements, you seem quite clueless about the industry. I would recommend doing more research. Given what you've posted, it'll be difficult for you to get a position.

As a second year MBA student I would have expected you to have been much more knowledgeable about the industry that you wish to pursue. Have you not been attending recruiting/information events during the past year or do you go to a "B team" business school (no pun intended)?

Lets chill with comments like "clueless". I've been researching the industry for over a year now I wasn't born yesterday. My first two statements are completely valid as I've seen banks that don't care or have minimum GPAs down where you would not normally expect it to be. I'm guessing these aren't popular banks and need warm bodies. I don't really care. Its all about foot in the door.

Commercial banking -> investment banking -> private equity is a pretty common career path from the guys I’ve been talking to. I'm here in the Midwest and we do have an active M&A community which I've made some contacts with so again..lets cool it with phrases like clueless.

I will admit I had not heard that the objective statement is antiquated. I just had my career center look over it last year and several other people have seen it and nobody has said a word. If you tell me that objective statements are so five minutes ago I'll hunt you down and beat you with a banana.

Yes I’m from a boring ole school. Not Harvard not Yale and I don’t care. I don’t want to go to wall street. All I care about is money, I don’t need a big shinny GS on my bonus check to make me feel good about myself.

Now that I’m done ranting…no I haven’t been to recruiting events because there are none. If we’re lucky Jaffrey Piper will come an interview and we get the odd unofficial visit from a JP Morgan guy but he is a derivatives trader. What I have noticed is that when banks do come on campus they are all about the undergrads. MBAs are chopped liver.

I was thinking about this comment. I do want to adjust my GPA. No smoke and mirrors I just want to remove the effects of our schools odd grading policy to make myself more comparable. When I make my adujstments it bumps up by 2 tenths of a point. Nothing big. When should I bring up my alterations? Right away or wait till futher in the interview process?

Jesus dude... I don't know where to begin.

I don't think you have done enough research.

why don't you give me some objective advice I can use. Someone said that I don't know what I'm talking about and yet I can pull up serveral job announcements specifically looking for former commercial bankers. Are these job post just fake? I personally know several PE types that have gone that route.

If a bank says they want a minimum of 3.0 does that really mean they are just kidding and will only take 4.0s? Keep in mind that these ARE boutiques. I'm aware that people with huge GPAs will be applying but my time at the Air Force Academy taught me that huge brains isn't everything especially if you're lazy.

Falcon

The reason your school has its rigid GPA policy is probably to 'make up' for the fact that it's not a top notch mba program. There is no issue with that, but their grading system creates a top that is attractive to firms, there may be an ongoing relationship with a few companies on the basis of this grading policy. Of course, I don't know.

What don't you say which school you go to?

Also, boutiques are usually still pretty hard to get into, they don't want 'warm bodies' only, that's a requirement but not the only one. It's one of many.

Falcon,

Here are some answers to your questions:

(a) GPA - No, you do not need to put GPA in your resume for MBA associate recruiting, whatever the norms for analyst recruiting are. Many top MBA programs do not even have a GPA system (mine didn't). That much said, some banks (e.g. Lehman) will ask for your grades. It is not usual to put GPA on an MBA resume, unless you did really well and you want to emphasize that. You can convey intellect through other ways, a high GMAT (retake it if you must), market talk and the way you handle technical questions during the interviews.

(b) Objective statement - MBA candidates don't put objective statements on their resumes, at least not that I am aware of. Does your school have a resume template that you can use?

(c) IB and commercial banking - most banks have separate recruiting for their divisions. For example, JPMorgan and Citi recruit separately for their IBD and commercial banking. Just follow the recruiting guidelines on the bank you are applying to. Call their HR to find out what the procedure is for applications to both divisions.

I'm gonna not jump on the bandwagon and trash falcon....

Sometimes I get the feeling that theres a bunch of frustrated guys on this board waiting to smell blood in the water. Remember, people here always want to tell you that you can't do something because they couldn't.

1. An objective statement is a good idea WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A COVER LETTER. Otherwise, you're just being repetitious.

2. Have your resume professionally written.

3. Have your ibanking buddies review your resume, ask them to be as harsh as they can.

4. MBA's are somewhat looked down on at BBs because kicking you out after 2 years is pretty much a nice way of saying we don't think you're a top guy. So the prejudice is that MBA's w/ exp weren't top analysts. I'd suggested stating clearly that you're changing careers and want to do ibanking and haven't done so before now.

5. Regardless of the GPA requirement, you're going to have people who have better GPA's applying. Don't let a minimum deter you from applying. If it's low have a story to back it up and really good one.

6. Get a contact in the IBD at every bank you apply for, I don't care if it's the secretary, stay on them until they let you tell your story. Tell them your GPA was low because you took care of your dying family member and it took all of your time, struggle when you tell it most people feel compelled to help those in need.

7. When calling, start at the top..literally vice chairman, IBD down to analyst. (the higher the position the more free time they usually have..and power)

...be relentless and don't take rejection personally

Markets405, you are giving bad advice. You asked him to talk to the "vice chairman" - do you know how powerful a position vice chairman is at an investment bank, and do you think he has time to talk to you? If you are talking about Vice-President, then maybe.

Oh, and telling the lie of looking after a dying family member to explain away a low GPA (and "struggle when you tell it") is such a brilliant idea, and so believable. You think we can't see through your lousy acting? Do you think you are applying to film school? Cut the crap.

You're bigger problem is not the GPA, but the fact that you don't go to a top-MBA program that is highly recruited by banks. Plus it was my understanding that a lot of banks look for a high GMAT score vs high GPA since so many b-schools have grade non-disclosure policies.