How are women treated in IB?

I’m a finance student from Edinburgh uni interested in IB. I have heard and read a lot of stuff about how analysts and associates are treated in IB. Most of them were from men. Would like to know any experiences from women? Not the hours and stuff. I have come across so many men looking down at women whenever they say they want to get into IB or work in finance. It’s pretty annoying but I guess that doesn’t make them men. They’re boys. Anyways, any women pov on this?? Or if y’all heard anything or have opinions feel free to share. Would love to know if it’s any different or better or worse :))

 
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Being a woman is a strong advantage to get into IB. Being from the University of Edinburgh isn't lmfao

 
Most Helpful

Extremely strong advantages:

1) Never getting laid off unless severe performance issues or severe violation of HR policy

2) Guaranteed promotion (at least til VP 3 level transitioning into Director)

3) Guaranteed good bonuses because most banks will try to retain you (unless your bank isn't doing too well and not having the budget)

4) Guaranteed placement into the most coveted groups (FSG, M&A, LevFin, TMT, etc). You can always see best exit/lifestyle groups always have higher women/men ratio than other groups

Disadvantages:

1) Most junior women I know tend to have some beef with/from women senior bankers. This is 10 out of 10 cases so just watch out for that. A woman's biggest competitor is another woman. I know a team at my firm where 2 women don't talk to each other. Another team there's 4 women and they were split into 2 cliques of 2.

2) It could be a disadvantage if your VP/ED/MD is attracted to you but you don't reciprocate, that's when the negative discrimination starts to happen. You'll notice it when a Director/MD openly flirts with you. With that being said, if your VP/ED/MD behaves that way (i.e sexually frustrated), do you really want to be there? That's just an extreme example and uncommon case. Aside from that you shouldn't have to worry.

 

Me: GPT... do you figure this writer is a man or women?

**Copy/Paste the above**
 

GPT Answer:

"Based on the context provided, it seems that the author might be a man. The reasoning includes a potential outsider perspective on women's dynamics in the workplace and an assumption of external observation rather than personal experience. The specific reference to senior women's interactions and the remark about negative discrimination related to attraction suggests a perspective that may be more common among men observing women's experiences rather than experiencing them firsthand. However, without additional context or explicit information, this remains a guess and not a definitive conclusion."

...Maybe we should outsource the IQ AND the EQ to AI...

 
PricingMonkey

Me: GPT... do you figure this writer is a man or women?

**Copy/Paste the above**
 

GPT Answer:

"Based on the context provided, it seems that the author might be a man. The reasoning includes a potential outsider perspective on women's dynamics in the workplace and an assumption of external observation rather than personal experience. The specific reference to senior women's interactions and the remark about negative discrimination related to attraction suggests a perspective that may be more common among men observing women's experiences rather than experiencing them firsthand. However, without additional context or explicit information, this remains a guess and not a definitive conclusion."

...Maybe we should outsource the IQ AND the EQ to AI...

yes I wrote that and I'm a man. Just wanted to provide unbiased perspective. My SB/MS ratio doesn't lie lol

 

I beg to differ based on my experience working in a BB IB team in NYC.
- Women need to constantly perform equal to peers regardless of their life phase; there's always pressure to perform equally.
- In the current economy, I've seen several high-performing women and men lose their jobs. RIF and layoffs are the new normal and don't guarantee anyone protection based on gender.
- Women at my bank always supported one another and were never just competitors. I've had several women mentors and admired many females in leadership roles.

IB is a high-performance, high-expectations industry. While being a woman might help you get your foot in the door, I beg to differ that anyone can succeed without strong performance, regardless of gender. I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

 

I beg to differ based on my experience working in a BB IB team in NYC.
- Women need to constantly perform equal to peers regardless of their life phase; there's always pressure to perform equally.
- In the current economy, I've seen several high-performing women and men lose their jobs. RIF and layoffs are the new normal and don't guarantee anyone protection based on gender.
- Women at my bank always supported one another and were never just competitors. I've had several women mentors and admired many females in leadership roles.

IB is a high-performance, high-expectations industry. While being a woman might help you get your foot in the door, I beg to differ that anyone can succeed without strong performance, regardless of gender. I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

Cheers to you for being at a bank where women support one another and has a fair layoff / RIF practice. I beg to differ. I do agree you have an easier time getting the job, but the benefit multiplies out once you're actually in the job. This is a common theme across my firm, my friends at BB, and a handful at EBs:

1. Never getting yelled at (unless you work with woman MD)

2. Guaranteed great bonuses regardless of performance  

3. Hiring ratio M/F of 50/50, but RIF ratio is M/F 90/10

4. Some terrible coasting women ASO2 make VPs like nothing, while some dudes have to do AN3 or ASO4

5. Always more girls in the best groups such as FSG

 

Intern in IB-M&A:

Extremely strong advantages:



1) Never getting laid off unless severe performance issues or severe violation of HR policy



2) Guaranteed promotion (at least til VP 3 level transitioning into Director)



3) Guaranteed good bonuses because most banks will try to retain you (unless your bank isn't doing too well and not having the budget)



4) Guaranteed placement into the most coveted groups (FSG, M&A, LevFin, TMT, etc). You can always see best exit/lifestyle groups always have higher women/men ratio than other groups





Disadvantages:



1) Most junior women I know tend to have some beef with/from women senior bankers. This is 10 out of 10 cases so just watch out for that. A woman's biggest competitor is another woman. I know a team at my firm where 2 women don't talk to each other. Another team there's 4 women and they were split into 2 cliques of 2.



2) It could be a disadvantage if your VP/ED/MD is attracted to you but you don't reciprocate, that's when the negative discrimination starts to happen. You'll notice it when a Director/MD openly flirts with you. With that being said, if your VP/ED/MD behaves that way (i.e sexually frustrated), do you really want to be there? That's just an extreme example and uncommon case. Aside from that you shouldn't have to worry.


completely inaccurate - source: women in IB

my best mentors are senior women. also have seen that most of our lay offs affect women in our group at least. would say it only helps when firms want to hire a class that is 50% women, but that never happens anyway.

 
Controversial

People look down on women in every field. Law, politics, medicine, education, tech, you name it. It’ll happen whatever path you take, so you might as well pursue whatever you want.
 

In my experience, outright misogyny is pretty rare. It’s more common for guys to say something that’s enough to make you feel uncomfortable and unwelcome, but not enough to get them in trouble with H.R. The best response in these cases is to joke back, and to hit them with some of the same infuriating bs advice that’s offered to women (calm down, get your emotions under control, you’re being illogical, is it that time of the month, have you tried yoga / a gratitude journal / self care / etc.) They’ll knock it off quick. Keeping close to good bosses (there are some decent ones) will help you as well.

Remember that it’s not about you, who you are, or anything that you’ve said or done, but about the threat that you pose to insecure men. The fear, as I understand it, is that if you can provide for yourself, they won’t be needed. It’s easier to blame you for whatever friction they have in their lives. 
 

I’d love to tell you that this is only a finance thing, and that avoiding banking would keep you safe, but that would be a lie. It’s everywhere. Given that it’s unavoidable, but also manageable, do what you want. Play your own game, and f*ckin’ rip it. 
 

Edit. This really hit a nerve with you guys. In the last 24h, I’ve been called (in no particular order)

- Crazy

- Uneducated

- Unfuckable (twice)

- A femcel

- A fucking miserable femcel

- A feminazi

- She-zilla

- A dumb bitch 

The last one was from a guy who says he respects women. It came through last night while I was listening to a podcast and making dinner for my family. 
 

Thats low, even by Internet standards. 
 

Edit Edit: Some clever new “incoming” name-calling:

- Toxic

- Horrible attitude

- An object for men to piss on (where the heck did you even get this?)

Broheim, while there are some good dudes in here, there are also some truly psychotic creeps. A lot of them. Overall, I remain unconvinced of the latter’s inner confidence and sense of self-worth, to say nothing of their mental acuity or fitness to walk out of the d*mn house. You’ll also understand my skepticism of anyone who claims to treat women as equal peers, yet is cool with calling them dumb bitches, unfuckable, fucking miserable femcels, and so on. Is that really who you want to be? 

 

Hate to sound so negative, but you sound like a fucking miserable femcel. Don’t know why there are so many of these in high-finance.

If you make hating men your entire personality and carry yourself like that everyday, you can’t get mad when men don’t want to accept your feminist shit-sandwiches.

Don’t think most guys care that women pull in the same money, but we do care when we are continuously barraged with this she-zilla horseshit.

 

Yep there's loads. Probably to do with how women rarely date downwards so the pool of available men is very small for them since a lot of those similar earning men prefer women who don't work an intense job.

 
BigTiddyGoth

People look down on women in every 

Remember that it’s not about you, who you are, or anything that you’ve said or done, but about the threat that you pose to insecure men. 

I'm assuming this is a troll post given your name and the post history. 

If not, big yawn. Couldn't be a less educated take. We are in a time where women have material advantages over men in the same career in every level. The "diversity" virtue signalling has made this so. 

I only need to point to the % women in new junior banking classes and intern groups or point to the number of MD promotes at major banking institutions.

Please leave your nonsense rhetoric off this forum. 

London Sponsors M&A - EB
 

who hurt you lmao? Don’t know many guys fitting the archetype you described. We don’t give a fuck what’s in your pants we just want to do our jobs, get paid, and go home or hang out with our friends/gfs. Maybe if you feel this way the issue lies with you — I’m sure if you drop the femenazi shit your perspective will shift.

 

Perfect example of someone who wants to play victim without presenting facts. Because when facts are entered into the conversation your opinion tends to not make sense anymore.

 

I fully agree with this, It sucks what women have to go through in the industry. Coming from an avid male-feminist myself  (can i hit?)(6'4 btw)

 

I’ve never seen a normal woman called that. It happens rarely in college and it’s even more rare in the workplace. You can easily get away with saying something to a guy, usually not the reverse. To be honest if people are outright calling you that then you might be giving them a reason to because it’s that rare

 

You can see everything I’ve said. What do you think is the justification for people on this thread to call me “dumb bitch” or “an object for men to piss on”? 
 

Of course I think I’m normal, but it’s hard to be unbiased in this regard. Is anything here so wildly off-kilter that these names are ok? Are these names ever justified? The times that you’ll see me say “night, Sugar”, is when someone calls me a bitch, crazy, and other stuff that the mods have since removed. I struggle to see how these terms are ever justified, so this is genuine curiosity.
 

 

Thanks. 
 

Pure conjecture, but it’s possible that some guys see women getting more interviews during recruiting or other visible evidence of gender-based favoritism, and feel that it negates how hard they’re working. Being resentful in that case is understandable. What they don’t tend to recognize are all of the ways that women are held back, either deliberately or through indifference and institutional inertia.

Still, I’m not sure that they recognize how name-calling reads like deep deep insecurity.

 

Everyone is treated the same if they do their part.

The fact that you had to ask this convinces me that you won't be enjoyable to work with. I guess if so many of us bankers are boys, then you are a girl because you are making wild assumptions.

I can also tell you are not getting a job with that mindset, lol. IB spots are rare and nobody wants to deal with that attitude.

Anywhere in finance you will be surrounded by men. If you have an issue with that, then cry about it.

 

Please read my comment before responding to it.

Everyone should be treated fairly, in theory, **if they do their part.**

Sounds like the people you work with are insufferable and have terrible team values. My firm is focused on doing whatever necessary for the preservation of the common good.

 

I would recommend focusing on the culture of the group/bank. That’s helped me navigate different environments and narrow down where I can see myself working. Example: Is this group clear with communication and expectations? This and other aspects of the culture help determine how you will be received in the group/bank and your progress. I’ve generally found that culture is a great benchmark for predicting your experience as a woman in any role. This is from my own experience and hope it helps!

 

It is very VERY group dependent. Take the feedback on your post with a grain of salt, the actual number of incels / virgins who get a seat are much lower than you think. 

Have seen it range from subtle misogyny, not knowing how to treat you like a colleague versus a woman to just being one of the group. I'm obviously a dude and there are probably things I don't notice that a woman would pick up, but that's what I've seen with my "man eyes" if that makes sense. 

I think things get harder as you move up. Remember sitting next to a director who worked through basically all her pregnancy, fired off "will not be available briefly" emails as she went into labor and bounced back very shortly after. No mat leave. 

If it's a male heavy group, I say give them the benefit of the doubt and some time to adjust. Be firm when your boundaries are tested etc. etc. 

 

In all honesty? You have a wild advantage when it comes to getting the job. 
 

Once on the job? Doesn’t matter what your gender is as long as you get the job done. If anything, you still have a leg up because you’re a female. 
 

So I guess your point relates to the “finance bro” culture. This is probably a bit the case everywhere but bear in mind that most banks have a 50% hiring ratio now so it’s actually pretty mixed at the junior level.

The question now is do you like the job and environment you’ll be working in? I don’t think that would be hugely bank dependent, although you may prefer a bank with more female seniors, but wouldn’t be too focused on that tbh. You’ll be fine anywhere (assuming you’re a fit for the job)