Don't go to Dartmouth, I Regret It (Rant + Explanation)
I've been reading a bunch of posts and comments about Dartmouth on this forum and wanted to offer the perspective of someone who went through recruiting here recently. I am currently a rising junior or senior at the school, and I am a White or Asian male with zero prior connections in finance. After recruiting, I felt 'tricked' (in a bad way) into coming here by some of the stuff I read online about Dartmouth, which is why I'm making this post.
Let me start with the campus. You're stuck in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do besides day drink or hike. Winters are depressing with the sun setting at 5 pm and the food (foco meal plan) is extremely overpriced.
Now, onto the more important stuff about recruiting.
Dartmouth has the HIGHEST percentage of rich or connected kids compared to any other school, and tons of women here recruit for finance too (diversity). This means that the amount of spots available for non diverse and non connected students is very small. I'd wager that 1/3 of our placements are through connections, and the majority of the remaining spots are allotted to diversity. The aforementioned groups are the people who are getting the top banks and groups, it's impossible for the rest of us to place at the best banks because of quotas from banks. The nondiverse students going to solid banks usually get the job through a frat connection, and if you're not in a frat while being nondiverse/non-nepotism, good luck lol.
You may be wondering, what about the cool Dartmouth specific things like the winternship (D plan) and not needing to intern anywhere sophomore year (Dartmouth requires sophomores to spend their sophomore summer on campus). Every good bank and buyside firm axed the wintership offering to Dartmouth students. This means that nondiverse/unconnected students have even less opportunities to fill their resume because they can't intern anywhere during their sophomore year, which makes it even harder to get a junior offer.
What about the amazing Dartmouth alumni network that everyone praises? Extremely overrated. Most alumni only help out kids who were in the same frat/club as them, and the other alums only help kids from the same hometown/background as them, meaning northeast boarding school. Even if you do find an alumni willing to help you, most of the time they can't even get you a damn interview because the spots are already filled by diversity/nepo.
What about the "best buyside placement per capita" notion that is spread so much on this website. It's utter nonsense. 80-90% of the kids going buyside out of college are either nepotism or diversity. You'd be surprised how many students at Dartmouth have parents in very high positions in the industry. The only buyside firms that regularly take nondiverse and unconnected students are SIG, Bain and Bridgewater, that is all. Best buyside placement my ass.
What about Dartmouth having no competition? Not true at all. So many students here recruit for finance, just scroll through Dartmouth students on Linkedin and have a look. I'd estimate that 30%+ recruit for financial services.
I have so many nondiverse friends going to places like Nomura, Jeff, other random MMs, and those who struck out and switched to CS/Prelaw that share the same sentiment as me. Sorry for the rant, but please do your research before committing to Dartmouth if you are a nondiverse, unconnected student. I didn't and I regret it.
I hate to say this, but this happens at every other target school too. People think that just because you go to a target, recruiting will be easy and the playing field will be fair, but that just isn’t the case. Unsupportive alumni, weaker placement relative to diversity/connection candidates, etc. are all very common.
Yes, I agree with you, but the issues are magnified at Dartmouth because of the reasons I mentioned above. I have friends at other target schools and they found it much easier to recruit as nondiv/nonconnected, again, because of the Dartmouth-specific reasons that I mentioned above, namely the quotas + high concentration of nepo babies / diversity leaving 0-2 spots at every firm for everyone else.
For real, shit I'd love an offer from SIG, Nomura, or Jeff lmfao
I'm convinced that if you're a non-diverse/nepo candidate, you should treat recruiting as if you go to a non-target no matter what school you're at.
big fax - my buddy at Duke landed a regional mutual fund in charlotte (got rejected from every single eb/bb, while no looks from PE/HF buyside), while his sister at NC State landed UMM PE sophomore year through girls who invest + eb tmt ibd junior year.
Brutal.
I think this is a stretch. I went to a target at the ~20 ranking in US news (Think Georgetown, Notre Dame, Michigan, Vanderbilt), and plenty of non-diversity, non-repo candidates got great roles at MBB, BBs, EB, etc... Many weren't in any of those elite fraternity's/clubs either. And (at least from my undergrad), the alumni I networked with did not care at all what clubs/sports you were in.
You still have to network a ton and have the good resume, but honestly you'll be in a wayyyyyy better position than you would be if you were at a non target. Just having multiple alumni at each firm gives you a significant leg up. I get reach outs from people at state schools who have never met anyone that works at an MBB (and they have maybe 1 big 4 connection).
And having upperclassmen who have been through the process is another leg up. So many freshman ask me for recruiting advice. I've read over so many resumes of underclassmen and given out at least 10 mock cases. And when a buddy of mine that's a few years younger got the internship, we talked for an hour about how he should approach the job to guarantee a return offer. That doesn't happen at non target schools- you're very much on your own. And the career centers actually know the timelines for each of the firms. For example, my school's career center sent out weekly emails of deadlines approaching- this doesn't happen as often as it does at non targets.
So yes, recruiting is gonna be a grind wherever you go, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that recruiting for IB from Dartmouth is comparable to recruiting for IB from University of New Hampshire.
If I can break into IB from a non target, you should not be complaining about breaking in from an ivy
I primarily made this post to advise non-diverse, non-nepotism high school students to attend schools other than Dartmouth, and to clear the bullshit on this site about Dartmouth being on the same level as Penn, Columbia, etc; because it’s not.
"If I won the lottery with only being able to afford one lottery ticket, you should be able to win after purchasing 7 lottery tickets"
Thanks for sharing your experiences, it is useful to hear your view and the comments.
I have a friend who did go to Dartmouth and fits every criteria you mentioned (not nepo/wealthy/connected, male and White). Despite all the hardship, he eventually landed one banking internship, and was ultimately hired to work for a very high-profile tech firm within their global finance team. I can't give too many details but this firm is in the media every single hour.
While he didn't go into IB specifically, his stock options, benefits package, comp, and further outlook ultimately made him a millionaire before he turned 30. This was largely because of his degree and the name brand of the school.
I am not saying everyone else can do the same thing, but this is a solid school for many careers and fields. I would be shocked if you ended up with an unsatisfying career path eventually.
So your friend went to Dartmouth and only got 1 IB SA offer, which I assume was not very good because he left to work in global finance, and got lucky with the timing of his hiring because of the appreciation of his stock options? I don’t see how this contradicts anything that OP said in his post…
Analyst,
my post was not intended to contradict OPs post. My friend received a top tier IB offer (among other criteria, due to Dartmouth) an decided to go to the bay area. It was the right move also as his career developed more than it could have within IB (yes, he got lucky and yes, his options performed well).
From what he told me, Dartmouth and his peer network were helpful when was recruiting.
It all worked out for him.
I appreciate your response, but it doesn’t invalidate Dartmouth’s issues with recruiting as a non diverse, non nepotism student. Glad to see that he succeeded, but there are many others just like him who are sold false promises about the school and strike out / pivot elsewhere.
When I was at college very similar things happened, just in an entirely different state and region of the US.
I think at the end of the day all of these colleges are businesses that need to earn an income, there are very few college programs that "guarantee a certain outcome" or a certain job like banking.
Sad to hear that Dartmouth doesn't work for White males and/or kids who aren't as connected. Of course they are not going to say that before you enroll.
empathize but don't think kids who manage to get an ivy league offer are likely to have potential IB diversity / network implications on the top of their list for factors lol
Diversity recruiting needs to be made illegal asap. I need someone to sue
better call saul!
and ed blum and chris rufo too!
No bid
Non-diverse+non-nepo immigrant Dartmouth alum here - landed 2 EBs + MBB without any club / frat because I didn’t know what IB was until mid sophomore year. Plenty of non diverse kids make it every year and definitely way more than possible
that may hold true in a good economy, but in today's economy, with high inflation & interest rates, firms are mostly downsizing and don't have enough spots for an overflow of qualified candidates, so they will make their lives easier by prioritizing diversity and nepo hires above all. those without the connections are squeezed out and it almost feels like the school's alumni have turned their backs on us.
hey man, so sorry to hear. in a v similar boat as you, but i am currently at georgetown, and have a sister at dartmouth. different schools, but similar situation, so here's my $0.02 from another white/asian male (fgli).
darty and gtown place v well, despite not having the highest global rankings, but both schools are nepo baby central. outside of diversity and nepo, plenty of kids strike out, especially among white + asian males.
bridgewater recruits v heavily out of dartmouth (their fav school right next to HYPSM + wharton & columbia), as their cio is dartmouth class of 1996, while evercore and centerview do so out of georgetown, as the EVR founder is georgetown class of 1967 + the head of the raid defense group is georgetown class of 1988, and CVP's head of RX is georgetown class of 1989.
both schools place v well, and way too many firms to count do OCR, but be prepared to go up against lots and lots of well-connected nepos and diversities. if you do not fall into either category, it's a rigged game from the start.
no doors will be closed to you at darty or gtown, but you will have to hustle and play your dealt cards right.
if you're at darty, try using the d-plan for cool internships + join dipp, while if you're at gtown, try to work a part-time internship in dc + join any investment club on campus - beef up that resume and you will at least get first rounds from where you want.
overall, great undergrad experience at both schools and drop dead gorgeous campuses.
but definitely hard to enjoy the full dartmouth/georgetown experience under the soul crushing pressure of not being the only one without a good internship/job.
regarding your comment about the dartmouth alumni network - yes, i have heard similar sentiments from my sis and i can attest that i also am facing similar issues with the georgetown alumni network too.
even as a female, my sis has been talked down to and shown passive aggressive behavior at by wealthy alums at eb/bb/buyside, as have i with georgetown alums. when they sense that you're not diversity/nepo, they will try to find points to catch you off guard or beat you down.
it really is terrible how we are just trying to make a better life for ourselves, only to be pelted with condescension from alumni of schools that we worked so hard to get into and graduate without any loans.
i wish you all the best, and never give up!
go big green and hoya saxa!
did you just copy paste your sister's comment from that other thread with some extra details 😭
all great minds think alike, but yeah, me and my sis are pretty close 😎
2 fgli siblings trying to live the american dream in a dog-eats-dog world
del
Well of course, being rich and white is the #1 most prestigious thing ever. Guaranteed such an easy life. If someone has both attributes and still fail, they really need to rethink their life.
Bro this sub is so fucking bad when it comes to target school rhetoric it genuinely almost fucked me over. 1-2 percent acceptance rates spike to maybe 5-6 for targets and for regular non div it’s not much different. Most people who recruit at every school get nothing. This isn’t a Dartmouth problem it’s an every school problem. Way too many kids want these jobs now a days, spots are down. I’d bet even the majority of kids at Wharton don’t place and by majority I mean over 50 percent of probably the 1000 kids who recruit from Penn.
I don’t blame the school, I blame this site and honestly a lot of people from non targets who paint the picture that everyone in a target gets a bb or eb and you don’t have to do shit. Statistically even a 4.0 at a target doesn’t mean shit. The average starring salary at my t10 is under 80k lol. You or anyone else at Dartmouth didn’t get fucked over, reality is just not what this site said it does. Back in the day at Harvard it was still Brad and Chad getting the ib jobs nothing changed
I've been thinking about this a lot as of late. It's crazy to me that people believe it's possible to make IB recruiting "easy" without changing factors you can't control, like nepotism or diversity. It's still one of the most competitive fields, and to expect that the school name on your resume will carry you feels downright naive.
thats what happens when high schoolers confirm the notion that your school is everything to other high schoolers, like most of the kids on this site. Even now, when I tell everyone around me how overhyped my t10 and other ivies are, they don't believe me if they haven't hit college. Then they cherry pick like one kid we know who got mf pe out of ug, and act like thats the average. Now I'm seeing so many people around me shell out 400k for schools like NU and then work normal 80-120k little growth mcjobs for the rest of their life.
1. Okay? You are an overrepresented population as an Asian or white male. You will face this at every target school. I faced the same thing at Wharton, and recruiting was such a horrible hassle, especially as a white FGLI
2. I really see nothing here that is unique to Dartmouth. I'd imagine the same thing exists at Harvard or Princeton too
3. Your point re: the frat/club. No shit. Honestly, it's a worse look on you if you didn't have the social or mental capacity to join said organizations. Why didn't you rush? Why didn't you play a club sport? Why didn't you join that finance club? etc etc - it all comes back to you and your preparation
While I am all for venting, you can cope better than this. There are like three schools in the entire country where simply by going to the school, you basically just have to not drop the ball and you get an IB/MBB/etc job.
Darthmouth is not one of these schools.
HYP? And probably rice for Houston, NU for Chicago and UNC for charlotte?
Nah. I mean like literally just Penn and probably Harvard. Obviously, every school you listed is solid and provides legitimate advantages in some material type of way. I am not saying they don’t. But the ones where it is basically yours to lose (regardless of demographics) is much more limited.
All those are great options
The best banks are the hardest to get into because they are the best banks. If every non diverse kid at an Ivy could get into the best banks they would be Northwestern Mutual. Not sure why this is so surprising
Sucks to suck
sounds like you should have joined more clubs or frat.
Tbh, the whole diversity thing is racist in and of itself. Nothing against people hired via diversity programs (there are some very competent ppl hired through this means), but I honestly don't think having spots exclusively for diversity is promoting diversity.
Immigrant Asian with no connection to finance, and no benefits. Not looking for one either, but just can't support affirmative action or diversity hiring.
Yeah but going to Dartmouth is still obviously far better than going to any semi/nontarget. It's worse than going to schools like HYPSW sure but nobody was saying it wasn't? You can say your school is overrated but that's not to say you would have had a different opinion had you gone to another non-HYPSW target. I think recruiting is just hard from anywhere if you're nondiversity/nepo and I genuinely do not believe that there is that massive of a difference between most targets.
Also a while back there was a guy complaining about having gone to Wharton and saying recruiting there is overrated lol. It's just very competitive anywhere.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS!!!
as a fgli white/asian male at dartmouth, i can confirm that darty is a school where the 1%ers and the diversities have a great time with greek life and winter carnival, while everyone else grinds for seats at mm ibd or no-name firms.
bridgewater recruits v heavily tho, so s/o to greg jensen.
fun school, sure, but you are in the middle of nowhere and the traditions can get old.
and before anyone points out that darty is not pre-professional, let me correct you and say that it definitely is for a school without an undergrad business program.
call me a hardo all you want when i just hope to make good on my education and get a well-paying job so that i can support my retired parents.
Bro what? You can still enjoy greek life and winter carnival even if you're non-diverse or non-nepo.
Is it that bad for non-diversity candidates? How many people recruit IB from Dartmouth? I assume non-diversity accounts for ~40-50% of the total placements at target schools; how many are nepo?
it's not that bad at all; it's even worse. a lot of ppl recruit but they just don't talk about it. as OP mentioned, darty is one of the wealthiest schools ever, so ppl are connected and are often trained for technical interviews and have connections before they even set foot on campus. greek life is also cliquey to the next level and most ppl will help out pals from their frats.
if you're non-diversity and non-nepo, then it is gonna be tough.
regardless, the school is quite fun and i had the time of my life there.
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