Feeling that I’m bad at Finance Post Bonus
I currently finished my first year at a very strong group at a mid BB. I had a rough start especially pre Thanksgiving as I struggled getting used to working under immense stress and lack of sleep during a busy live deal and didn't produce my best work. I was also not the most fortunate when it came to my first staffings and got put on deals with some individuals that everyone wants to avoid/rolls their teams, which made things even harder.After the New Years, my attitude change a lot and I started focusing even more and putting extra effort to being good at my job (studying on weekends and seeking guidance). I was also able to find people that I enjoyed working with and the deals with the rough individuals became dead. For the past 8 months I have been getting very good reviews and had no issues with anyone, which made me believe that I was a strong performer and my hard work was paying off.I recently got my bonus and was given a number that was incredibly low, basically a "we think you should leave" number. The bonus has rocked my confidence and I'm struggling to find motivation in my work and trying to understand if finance is still a path for me or if I should leave. I really thought I was doing a good job and performing well due to the reviews so I don't understand how apparently I wasn't just good as the other analysts in my class. I been catching up with most of my associates and they all have good things to say about me and my work even the harshest one enjoys working with me so I'm just shocked at the message that the bonus sent me.Has anyone ever experienced something like this? I'm just struggling to move forward and use it as motivation. The only alternative I see is finding a new job and using my previous experience as a motivation but I'm nervous that I just might be bad at finance overall and a bad employee and I'm going to be bad at whatever place I join.
It’s just a tough pill to swallow that I worked so hard and tried so hard and was getting good feedback based on my effort but it was mostly for nothing as I could had made more doing a 9-5. So many late nights and so many sacrifices were made and I was happy and proud of myself that I was good at my job based on my teams’ feedback just to be told you are shit when it came to the bonus. Everyone in my class that I talked to got 4-5x more than me, even the lateral hires that have been here less than 6 months whose work I had to clean up and review on teams.
If the associates are giving you largely positive reviews, I would speak to VPs and MDs to see where you can improve. Evidently, someone saw a critical issue with you and it may be something trivial but you should see what the issue is. After that, start looking for other places to work. If associates think you are doing work and you can handle IB, you are cut out for the job. You just need to find some place that will value you and where you fit in well. You are at a BB so you have a ton of options of other places to go. Get back on the networking and application grind. Things will be okay.
I rarely worked with MDs or VPs that could actually talk about my performance as most of my work went to associates who would review then we would send to seniors who weren't really hands on.The only two times I worked with VPs hands on, one of them liked me as a person and didn't have any issues with my work (given that we barely worked together minus some small tasks) and the other was impress with my work but given that this was a recent staffing I doubt it had any contribution on my bonus. The only thing that I could think about is that I had some earlier issues with an associate who I reported to my staffer for abuse after she complained numerous times to my staffer about me. Honestly, she is a psycho and has major issues and everyone has rolled her teams because she is just insanely toxic to work under, I’m not sure how she is still around. I'm also not sure if I pissed someone off because I really can't comprehend why my bonus is this low.
Last part sounds like it could be why. You know how all it takes for a good review is someone going to bat for you? Well, a bad review/bonus also works the same way. If someone was vehemently shitting on you, that could probably explain the bad bonus, especially if this person’s opinion carries weight.
this makes zero sense - why would MDs have any say or understanding of how an analyst is doing? i dont think most MDs I worked with even knew my name (as was the case for every other analyst and often associates)
OP, please don't go around your associates and to your VPs / MDs for feedback. Associates are the only ones who provide input in reviews and their voices matter the most. If you got negative feedback, it was bc your associates have an issue with you - not an MD for gods sake
Im not sure if you've ever worked in banking - but associates giving you "positive reviews" doesnt mean anything. Most associates arent going to tell an underperformer that he sucks bc they're still trying to extract work out of him -- and also they're generally cucks so will save it for reviews and gossip
What’s a “we think you should leave bonus?” Like are we talking $35K or is it not even close??
Low teens borderline 4 digits
I highly doubt you are bad at finance. Sadly, first impressions are critically important. By your own admission, you struggled in the beginning and didn't produce your best work. Even though you improved later, the perception lingered of you being a non-performer. It's unfair, but once people form an opinion of you, it is very, very hard to change their minds.
You should let this be a lesson for you the next time you start a new job. Do everything possible to absolutely crush it in the beginning (a short term sacrifice) and develop a reputation as a smart and hard worker (e.g. first one in each morning, last to leave in the evening), etc. etc. Once that reputation has been ingrained, you can start easing up and taking things at a more reasonable clip.
Absolutely, I will definitely apply that to whatever place I end up next. I been talking to a few people and some of my current associates have told me not to leave and prove the group wrong this year as they didn't think i was a bad analyst and was smart enough for the job but I'm concern that A. My bonus will be affected again B. That people already have an opinion on me and that I will have to work against the current to get them to change their opinion (as you mentioned). I honestly think that a fresh start somewhere new will be beneficial and the best option here. Honestly just very gutted because those months I struggled were months where I had long stretches of 110-120 hours weeks since the first week I hit the desk and they are the months that destroyed my bonus.
I'd lean towards leaving too and getting a fresh start in another group. Changing people's minds is really really hard.
I would hit the eject button, unless the associates are willing to say that you are the best analyst in the group. If they are not willing to go to bat for you at that level, then it will be really hard to break old trends and the other thing is, you have to think about the associate promote. If you don't think you could get it, then it is time to switch too.
Honestly bonus is as much politics and bad luck as it’s skill and hard work. It’s just takes one person to not like you, or even if people like you, they might not bat for you and you get a shitty bonus.
Don’t get me wrong, this sucks, but very little you can do. If you enjoy your role and your associates like you then I would stay and see if it gets better next year as you build some relationships and start playing the politics game.
I’m just finding it very hard to want to stay at a place where I just been told that I’m shit despite all my hard work. I don’t want to be a career banker or love my bank or group by any means so I’m still struggling with the next steps.
In that case I would just start planning you next steps now. Either lateral or go to the buyside and find a place that values your hard work
Nothing wrong with getting out of a place that doesn't serve you. It can be tough to want to grind knowing you may never be able to shake the past.
This has got to be JPM. If it is, just know that you can work to the best of your ability and still end up with a shitty bonus. I have seen so many people get screwed over at the JPM team that covers the same industry as me due to politics.
Was thinking similar to you, but he mentioned mid BB in the opening sentence, so not sure either
Does this really matter lol
Tbh you might be one of those nice guy but not really that good. We have bunch of those in our group. There are some who just suck and don’t try - nobody wants them. There are also few who try but after a year, you know they are nice hard working kid but just not someone I would staff on something serious. The good analysts - VPs / Directors don’t mind working closely with them. If you fell behind early, it’s hard to get in front of the 75%+ who were in front of you right away. You’ll be decent but still behind. If your group has too many analysts or think a new first year can be better - they might consider cutting losses here.
You can stay on as second year but I don’t think the laddering will change much. Can’t say much about the difficult person other than yes it does end up impacting you and once that happens hard to get in front of the ones who either made it work, or avoided that person or at least was politically better (eg don’t go complain to staffer).
What do you mean by "not really that good". Not OP but this job can really confuse me in trying to understand where I should be following my first year. Like are you talking just attention to detail on formatting pages or do you mean overall technical knowledge, handling a full process with little direction, understanding the bigger picture, etc.
Is this an intelligence issue in regards to maybe just having a relatively lower IQ? Genuinely asking as I struggle to understand what the hell I am doing a lot. Have no problem cranking out a 20hour day or whatever after being told explicitly what to do but spinning my wheels trying to create something from scratch is a completely different story for me.
Any guidance here appreciated.
Leverage, leverage, leverage.
Oftentimes, when creating slides (for example) from scratch it’s really helpful to pull up an old CIM and leverage design ideas. From there, you can adjust the slide to better fit whatever you’re working on, but it can help you get over the mental block of a blank slide.
After more and more reps, you’ll begin to be able to throw things together off the top of your head, but this was something that was stressed to me when I first started and has made quite the difference.
Another idea is to pull up the company’s investor presentations, internal decks, etc. for inspiration. There are also slide templates you can find online to give you ideas, too.
Same thing applies for models and other Excel deliverables as well.
Yeah It could honestly be that but it’s hard to accept that fact. I always been one of those undergrads that knew they wanted to be in finance and applied themselves super early from college and excelled at internships and understanding the space better than my peers. I was fortunate to stumble to some very senior people who mentored me and always had super high expectations of me given my past performance so it’s hard to accept that I might just be bad. I find relief in knowing that my toughest but most helpful associate (guy will teach me for hours but has a dick attitude) values my work a lot and talked to me a lot that this bonus isn’t really reflective of my work and to not let it get to me because he thinks he is critical/hard and truly enjoys working with me.
I would honestly recommend that you just leave the group and lateral elsewhere when you can. You clearly care, which means you have the personality to succeed in this job. You end up with a TON of psychos in banking - from associate on up. If you end up in a difficult / non-supportive group it can really shatter your confidence. I left after a year at group I absolutely despised and my mental health and happiness improved substantially.
if you want to stay in banking then lateral. once your reputation is burned in your current group there's nothing you can do about it.
I was in your position earlier this year. It sucks, I was incredibly depressed and almost couldn’t see a way out. I’m in a much better position now and here are the 3 things I did (concurrently):
1. Apply for a new job. This was probably the hardest of the 3. To put myself out there and project confidence and tell a potential future employer that I would be a value add when I myself felt completely worthless was really really hard. But between sheer force of will, and a great support system of family, friends, and mentors who reminded me daily that I had faced and overcome worse odds, I was able to do it. In doing so, I regained my confidence (surprise surprise, there was a reason my current employer hired me in the first place), and I regained my initial love / attraction / fascination with finance. With this going on in the background, I kicked off step 2
2. Have candid conversations with key decision makers. For me, this was my staffer and some senior members of deal teams I was on (including the person who tanked my review). I told my staffer quite plainly that I did not accept the image of me painted by my review and I needed a chance to show people what I could really do. He gave me a chance both through staffings that were in line with my skills and interests, as well as an insane amount of his time on a regular basis to get the inside scoop and to help me to strategise.
3. This is arguably the most important one, but the one that will take the most time — decouple your self-worth from your professional achievements. I’m not one of those Patrick Bateman types or someone who is obviously a hardo. I have varied interests and hobbies, most of my friends are not in finance, and I never really thought my identity was tied to my job until this whole situation happened and I literally wanted to die because things were not going well at work. It was a wake up call for me and a much needed one at that. I’m still working on this and trying out a few things, so don’t have more advice to give here beyond the headline, but hope even that is helpful to you.
In all, after a truly traumatising start to the year, I find myself with a great offer in hand (well-known SM HF), crushing it at my current role (well-known MF PE), and hopefully laying the groundwork for a much healthier mindset so that even if everything goes to shit again, I’ll be resilient as always, but also kinder to myself.
Extremely helpful, thank you!
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