Girl Investment Bankers - Any tips?
I'm starting my IB summer analyst stint next summer and I was wondering if any of you fellow bankers had any advice on how to be successful in the field, how to prep well before the job, and how to get a return offer.
I wanted to know about specific experiences that other girl bankers - everything from where you buy your professional clothes, to how to make the most out of your experience. I don't see many girls on this forum so I hope I get a few replies lol
Don't feel like you are being judged differently or especially don't think they will take it easier on you. Work as hard as others and don't take anything for gratned. All of this diversity stuff should not be taken one way or the other. You earned your spot like everyone else and need to prove why you deserve to be there just like everyone else. There will always be people who might go harder or easier on you because you are a female but as long as you try your best, you can prove them wrong or right.
Take time to meet with all of the female bankers in your group. They will provide guidance on how to navigate this male-driven field. Have quite a few female mentors who have guided others in undersatnding how to best navigate things.
Be upfront about your commitments but keep in mind, that people will judge you but you have to manage their expectations. This does not mean you can go out to your Barry's class for three hours in teh evening and not be responsive. Don't walk around barefoot in the office or go out for the weekend without access to email. I've interned and worked with people who have done this and it is not a good lok, my friend. They did not get offers or did somehow because they wre really good otherwise.
The best bankers in my group are all female (regardless of the position they are in: whether analysts, associates or MDs) so please remember you have what it takes to succeed in this field and a support network of other females in your group who can help you out!!!
Deleted
"the best bankers in my group are all female"
I haven't eye-rolled that hard in a while homie
I actually mean it though...
I think I said this in response to another one of your posts. If I wasn't clear, let me reiterate:
SIMP
Oh, I'm a big SIMP. Will do anything for everyone. BUT that is why I am the top bucket analyst. All the juniors make fun of me but the seniors love me to death. I regularly get called out by the seniors on my pefroamcne.
WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF
Feel free to PM me with any direct questions. Don’t overthink the girl angle and take your job seriously. You’ll do great!
I heard a great quote from Oprah: Master Your Craft. Become so skilled, so vigilant, so flat out faaaaantastic, at what you do that your talent cannot be dismissed. I think that's pretty much the goal, and add your personality/communication skills to it. Smile and be confident - watch the guys, they are not backing down. You don't need to be aggressive, but take your seat at the table. Volunteer when asked, pitch in, offer to help, ask to do XYZ because you haven't had a chance to yet. Power pose ; ) Don't complain or gossip at all. At. All. Not in the office. If you hate everything and everyone, tell your friends or parents. Don't breathe a word to anyone, you do not know who you can trust. I repeat, you think but you do not know who you can trust. Not going to tell you what to wear, but whatever you choose to show, know that it will be seen. Know what I mean? It's your call. Times have changed, as has fashion...but evolution has not caught up.
Prep: If you can do a modeling course, and/or check out Macabacus learning...Wall Street Prep has a great Excel Crash Course and in particular, Advanced PPT course - excellent prep. Read the papers, know in general what's up with the markets so if it comes up casually you are able to participate.
If you have any opportunity for friendly professional banter with anyone more senior, smile and take the opportunity. It's always safe to ask someone about their kids, what sports or activities they do, what they're up to for the summer. These days it's hard to buy professional clothes - Lord & Taylor, Bloomingdales are decent. I used to shop in NYC at smaller boutiques or Century 21 downtown on lunch or late afternoon. I'd say a few well-tailored (and get them tailored if possible) slacks and blouses, pencil skirts and nice blouses are great, one or two blazers and a sweater that you can interchange with anything. I personally have a problem (e.g. addiction/obsession) with designer shoes and I am already tall but I love high heels and meeting the guys eye to eye, or towering over them ; )
A nice roomy black tote bag so you're super organized and walking into and out of the office looking crisp. Black because they get dirty. This brand Cuyana has beautiful ones and you can get an insert to organize stuff - because it becomes a big jumble and you're looking for your Metropass and the train is there...etc.
A lot of people use a small leather-covered notebook with a pageholder ribbon to keep things organized - maybe wait and see if others at your shop use them. I think they look like you're on top of things.
Perception is reality. An organized, clean desk with your personal items (shoes, bag) tucked out of sight is a good look. For the summer, anything personal do on your phone or tablet. I'd really (!!) stay away from using your work computer for any searches not work-related. You're being scrutinized for a couple of weeks - be on your best behavior so to speak. See what others do, but try to take calls somewhere private, or at lunch. This is all assuming you're in an office and not WFH, of course.
Very excited for you. Best of luck and please keep us posted.
This is some great advice - thank you!
For the part about clothes in particular, what is the best way to go for someone at a smaller shop where they're the only female on the floor (other than the HR woman 3+ decades older than me)? Per your point about about evolution not keeping up, I've struggled thus far with finding a balance between the more conservative vs the still very professional but slightly more stylish clothes that are more form-fitting / that show my figure a bit more. Since there's no other females my age, I haven't had anyone else to look to in the office to gauge what's best
I think what I meant about evolution is that men are still going to look at whatever you reveal...boys are boys, 2020 or 1980. I mean, I look at my old sheath dress suits and they were hella short. Hella. That was the fashion and I once looked at my thigh in a meeting when I'd crossed my legs and saw my thigh-high hose and laughed, I knew every guy in the room had seen it. I'd been there a few years at the time and they were like my brothers, but still. I made sure that didn't happen again.
I'm only making the point that it's naive to think you are not garnering attention with how you dress.
I also was the only woman (I loved it, the guys were great). Nothing to fear. The couple women around will be the most judgmental...that's just how it goes. Please - don't confide in them - keep it friendly but really professional. Their opinions will likely be part of decisions about you, even if their input is indirect.
So, I'd say fitted and fashionable is totally great and nothing to be afraid of at all! You can show off your physique in that way - it's like modest yet shows confidence. Tight, very short, cleavage, perfume-y, big hair, big makeup, noticeable jewelry is where it gets dicey. I think you get it and not likely that's your style. Fashionable and fitted are fine - but if the blouse is colorful, the pencil skirt/trousers are beautiful tailored not too embellished. I also love dresses - one and done - I have a couple navy/blue/black sleeveless sheaths, even one that's...ummm...geranium (red/orange)...can't miss me in that. But they are knee or longer. I really don't like the open toe spike-heeled sandal look for a Wall St type place. That's also kind of too much. I know younger women wear them - it kind of screams marketing/HR/Admin girl. You are not that girl. You are Louboutin 100's patent pump girl, if you must go super-sexy.
Agree with the above comments. Find female mentors when you first join as i’ve noticed women are typically harder on other women for some reason.. mentors will certainly help.
Firstly, don't think you have anything to prove because you're a female. Maybe I'm spoiled (in a very very diverse group, both gender-wise and race-wise...), but I think the industry has evolved quite a bit from the days where maybe a woman might have felt like she is part of the out group. Fully agree with the idea of finding female mentorship, but don't expect a fellow female to take you under her wing just because you're a female! Lastly, there definitely is a balance between being expressive with your clothing choice and being ultra conservative. You will probably be the topic of gossip if you dress too provocatively (unfortunately), but no one cares if you are super stylish or the complete opposite. Do whatever makes you happy and let your work speak for itself.
agree but what do you mean unfortunately? it should be that way in a business setting and that’s a good thing to have self-control or modesty when it comes to dealing with others right?
no animosity just wondering what you meant by that
Unfortunately as in you will be talked about in unkind / inappropriate ways. There are stories of a summer intern on my floor who dressed like she was going out on Friday rather than like she was headed to the office. Rather than someone pulling her aside and letting her know she should be more cognizant of her attire (which admittedly is awkward enough), the "boys" just made vulgar jokes about her behind her back. That's the unfortunate scenario I'm referring to. I guess the moral of the story is that you won't always have someone there to have your back, but I also don't want to paint the picture that banking is as much of a dog-eat-dog world as media paints it to be.
Be chill and approachable. Yes find female mentors, and take advantage of the diversity events that will be female only. They're a great way to meet the higher up women that are normally very busy. Ask the associates and analysts out to coffee. The higher up VPs and MDs will usually take you guys out to lunch sometime. Don't try and infringe on their time more than that.
Don't shy away from finding male mentors either. Everyone is very open to interns. Grab coffee with them too.
Work hard, make sure to have your technicals down. You won't get any leeway on performance for being female.
Ann Taylor, Banana Republic, and J. Crew are great, especially when they have sales. Everything is super affordable.
No one will really care if you repeat outfits. The guys literally wear the same thing every two-three days. They're not really in a position to judge. I was way more self-conscious of fashion than I needed to be, although dressing nice is always a plus.
No one will care if you always carry the same bag. I used the same Longchamp my entire summer. I actually prefer them over nicer bags because they're fabric and washable. You don't need to worry about scraping them or anything, not the way you do with a Celine or a Mansur Gavriel.
There are divided opinions on heels. I didn't wear them at all and stuck to a rotation of flats in neutral colors (Nordstrom, Lord & Taylor outlet). Again, the guys don't really care (at least I don't think). Keep a pair of heels at your desk if you'd like. It was also common practice for everyone to keep a pair of sneakers at their desks.
Keep a blazer in the office.
The guys will talk sports. Constantly. If you follow a sport, definitely join in. No need to follow every sport, but maybe follow one or two that you're personally interested in.
You'll have pressure to drink, but no one will force you to binge drink. Ironically, I got the most pressure from other females to drink.
Smile, a lot. Yeah, it's not fair that we have to smile, and it's not fair that we're told to smile, but it works and not everything is fair.
Best of luck!
Guys care enough to notice who is waering heels and who is not. Honestly, we dont' care if you're a girl and you dress normally. Youre not trying to mipress us by wearing heels all the time. Maybe have heels under your desk in case you want to bust them out one day but otherwise, not an issue.
Don't have to smile all the time either. Just don't have a disgusted look on your face all the time. Ok to have the resting face (not RBF though)
Something tells me richard_3 has resting bitch face from his lack of testosterone
I might not be female but would be counted as a "diversity" candidate.
Couple of tips and things that helped me with succeeding as an intern and getting stellar reviews from everyone:
Being diversity/female matters mostly if you want it to. I just never made it a topic if it wasn't for a nice opportunity to crack a good joke connected to my reason for being counted as a diversity guy. Everyone I met at my BB never gave me a single look or treated me in a distinct because of my ethnic origin.
Just be reachable at every time wherever you are. It's just a few weeks and anyone can sacrifice 100% of his/her time for such a short timeframe. I cannot stress this enough. Just being there and giving as much as humanly possible is such a differentiator and this'll be noted by everyone on your deal team. I made errors/typos/overlooked things but it was always within a reasonable amount.
Dress adequately and look good. Check some sites of private equity funds/boutiqes/etc. where you see some juniors. Just wear what they wear and have a similar hairstyle. You want to be remembered because of your skills/good attitude rather than how you looked like.
Everyone you're dealing with is just a normal human being. I'm a very lighthearted person and like to joke around but I'm 120% serious when I'm executing a task. Didn't change a thing about my attitude but it is important to know when you can have a laugh and when you need to be focussed. If you're a cool down-to-earth girl that knows how to have a good time and jokes around a bit then not a single person will act differently because you're around. Toning your humour a bit down and not being too risky with it should be remembered when talking to everything above analyst/associate. If they are very young a heart and don't act too senior (trust me. you'll know it when you see it) then you can stay less "formal" :)
TLDR: At the end of the day you'll get good reviews and an offer if you do your work good (more a 0/1 decision as you'll mostly reformat slides or do minor things in some model) and be a nice, fun person that people want to hang out with and to grab a drink every now and then.
Good luck and rock your stint!
I've been at two IB firms (pretty high % female) and am now at a PE firm (I'm the only female). Wanted to share my experience and advice.
Clothing: Anything modest is fine if you're not going to meetings. I have a few Theory suits and nice blouses that I keep at the office (one set) and change if I'm attending a meeting. Any plain looking bag is fine. Heels are optional, I only wear them to external meetings if that. Most women that I've seen transform into grandmas a few months into the job and have a giant blanket / sweater at their desk (myself included). Most of my male coworkers don't know what "business formal" is for women.
Where I Buy Clothing: Maybe TMI - As an intern / college student, I wore Banana Republic / H&M, cheap black heels / flats, a Theory suit (splurge item), and had a Kate Spade black tote. Now, I mostly wear Artizia, Jimmy Choo heels (so comfortable), Theory suits, and a LV Neverfull (I stuff books and laptop inside). I've seen other females in my IB class with Ferragamo block heels, Tory Burch flats, and a Longchamp / Prada bag. By no means do you need anything flashy / designer.
Work: I don't think I've been cut much, if any, slack for being female. At one of the banks, we tried to hire more female interns for diversity, but most of them didn't get return offers from work quality reasons. I'm sure there are certain things that are easier, like being able to stand out / diversity programs, but I've made sure to build out strong technical skills. In a PE recruiting report, females actually have a higher average GPA, better college background, and higher SAT score than males in the industry.
General Internship Advice: Generic - print things out, get coffee with people, seem really enthusiastic, be competent but very very humble, and be willing to work hard. If you're not from a finance program, I would review the banking guide or read Investment Banking by Rosenbaum. I would familiarize myself with excel and PPT functionality (By no means does it mean become a modeling expert). If you're in an industry group, I would read up on news, how COVID-19 has impacted the industry, and any reports about the industry in general.
Mentors: I have female and male mentors. I mostly have female mentees.
Things that are difficult - 1) For a lot of females, if you don't come across overly friendly, you can sound like a b*tch. That's been difficult to navigate. I've been called out before for being too aggressive when I was using my normal voice. 2) Work discrimination: At my first firm, all the female analysts were assumed to be less technical and they would put us on more process work instead of models. This hasn't been the case at any subsequent firms. 3) Harassment: I've had a decent amount of uncomfortable situations (direct and indirect). I always drink minimally at work events.
4) Lack of senior females: Even when I was in IB with a higher % of females, there were only a handful of female partners / MDs. Personally, I think this makes it harder for women to envision themselves in the industry long-term.
I hope this is helpful. Good luck on your internship. Feel free to reach out with questions.
Silly troll comments aside, there is some solid advice on this thread. The things that make a great intern, irrespective of gender, are spot on and will serve you well towards securing a FT offer. I think nowadays, being female in an IB intern program is generally less of an acute factor in how you are treated and how you're expected to perform. Intern and analyst FT classes, particularly at larger places, are generally better represented in terms of gender and other demographics. Unfortunately, I find that this tends to change pretty rapidly once you start working FT and begin rising up the ranks...but that's another story for another time.
For fashion, my broke intern ass could barely get by with Banana Republic, H&M and Express (suits, blouses, trousers.) But they are perfectly fine and professional. Later on, I expanded to brands with more longevity, like Ann Taylor, Anne Klein, Theory, Ralph Lauren and Loft. Heels are more of a personal preference, I think. I hate them with a fierce passion, so I stick with loafers and flats, but if you don't mind them and want a little elevation, pumps with a kitty heel are a great choice. For bags, you want to make sure it looks really crisp, clean and acceptable to bring to a client meeting (so Fendi fuzzy monster face design isn't a strong first choice lol). More importantly, you want to make sure it has capacity and carrying strength for your laptop, charger, presentation materials, notebook, calculator, pens, flats, etc. After my first bonus, I treated myself to a giant LV Neverfull, but non-branded is perfectly acceptable, too.
Someone earlier cautioned about getting too friendly with female colleagues off the bat - heed this warning! You will be surprised to learn, but not every woman at work is your best friend. It can be so tempting to immediately chum up with someone that looks like you when you're starting something new in an unfamiliar place, and it helps to build camaraderie. But be mindful. Some of the most hurtful, racist, sexist things ever said to me were by women colleagues, and while at work. While it's great to have girlfriends at the office, remember that until you build trust and rapport with each other, they are just like any other co-worker. Also keep in mind that male colleagues can also be wonderful friends, mentors, and sponsors, and your network will benefit from seeking out people who are down for you, not just for what you look like.
Last - and this is assuming we're all back in-person next summer - but don't hook up with anyone during your program. There's a lot of thirsty ass people in finance (including interns), so the temptation can be real, but just don't, period. In addition to being thirsty, people love spilling this kind of tea. I can 100% promise you people will find out, no matter how discreet you think you are, and that follows you forever and beyond. Shoot, I got enough dirt on folks to make an island in the Atlantic lol! And even if it's not a career killer, you don't really want that to be part of your rap sheet.