GS Industrials vs PJT M&A
The title says it all. Incoming 25 SA from a target/semi target and was lucky to have received offer from both in New York, but finding it a really tough decision to make. Here are some of my considerations:
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PEOPLE: built strong connections with the people at PJT through the process whereas GS felt largely impersonal (by the merit of being GS).
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INDUSTRY: ranked TMT first but unfortunately wasn’t given an interviewer in the group or FIG. Although I don’t have a strong preference with industry, have heard GS industrials culture is one of the worst. PJT will be completely generalist / flexible.
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EXIT: no plan to leave finance yet (I know GS has a better name brand outside of finance) but was wondering if 2 year and out into PE is really the way to go? It’s definitely early to think about and GS might help to keep the options open.
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COMPS: less of a priority in consideration for me. PJT likely pays better.
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GROWTH: sounds like (from the EB stereotype) analyst gets much more exposure to clients and seniors in the group… but wanted to be realistic and understand the nature of the work is probably similar? Would appreciate if anyone can give some insight on this.
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Has been talking to people working at each as well as seniors / alums. WSO was such a great resource through recruiting and i was hoping to hear the wisdom of the forum to enlighten me in this choice!
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Really appreciate any input.
gs... tf?
How? Diversity?
GS, even though industrials is a known sweat shop. Exits are going to be the same, and I feel that PJT M&A (as opposed to RSSG) is a tier below a classic IBD group from GS. Only reason to opt for PJT would be the pay...
Thank you for your insights!! Would you say GS IND and PJT is on par with PE exits?
Yes, they are pretty much in line so no major difference
Del
Don't listen to anyone saying gs, industrials group sucks. I interned there and its literally survival mode. PJT M&A will give you the same PE and HF looks maybe better but definitely not worse. Granted PJT M&A culture actually sucks too but gs industrials sucks more
Thank you for sharing! If you don’t mind could you elaborate a bit more on your internship experience? And did you feel like the experience positioned you well although it wasn’t pleasant?
Second, take PJT
curious about your experience
Curious to hear about PJT M&A’s culture
following
Bro eb like pjt evercore or centerview over gs any day
PJT. Incredibly strong exits and lot better culture
RSSG has a great culture. The strategic advisory (M&A) is known to have a shitty/toxic culture...
What are these PJT shills lol. Exits are not better since 80% of the class comes from Wharton or a target.
GS is still the best name brand in finance. No one will ever question it especially if you’re trying for a career in finance.
PJT m&a is way too hyped up and yeah it’s great the lean deal teams and all but culture is just as bad. I have many friends that did GS industrials from non-targets that are going to MFPE. I can’t say the same about PJT m&a’s exits…
ok PJT M&A is getting WAY too overhyped... it's nice and all, and they did the recent Capital One-Discovery deal but honestly other than that they haven't been that prominent on other mandates
Would choose GS Industrials over PJT M&A.
I would personally take PJT - have friends at both PJT and GS Industrials. I'd say GS definitely has more prestige outside of finance, but recent exits from the PJT class have been quite strong these past two years. They're relatively new and exits / opps increasing every year. Both have small class sizes and shitty WLB but tighter networks and exits within finance for PJT.
Both very great places, you’ll learn a ton and work on interesting deals at either place.
Would say PJT as I have generally heard decent sentiment on culture. Of course at any top group you’ll have to work very hard, but seems like a more collegial place
It sounds like people are generally more in favor of working at top boutiques - wondering if this is because exits and hours are generally similar but pay is higher at these shops?
First off, congratulations - this is a great predicament to be in. Couple thoughts on both places.
There is no brand like GS. it is unmatched and classic IBD at GS is still considered the gold standard (whether it should be or not). The main four groups (TMT, HC, C&R, and Industrials - excluding FIG, NatRes, and RE because their modeling/coverage is more niche) are extremely strong and all have top tier exits. In regard to industrials specifically, the culture is not good. While I can't speak directly to how they treat people / if it is a toxic environment, the hours are unquestionably awful and as bad as it gets at GS or anywhere on the street for that matter - pretty universally agreed upon. It is truly a sweatshop (this is hyperbole of course we are working desks job at the end of the day). All that said, industrials will give you great training, you will have super cool clients (big airlines, A&D companies, etc), and the exits are as good as anywhere.
PJT is a very very strong firm with a great reputation. The training will be excellent and you will work on some super cool deals. You will work very hard but I promise you it will be better hours (if marginally) than GS industrials. I think the generalist program is a little bit of misnomer because I am fairly certain that analysts get placed in pods where you cover 3 sectors at a time but regardless you will still get more exposure than being in just one sector such as industrials. To touch on exits, they are as good as anywhere. (Its worth noting that with this whole "exits" thing, if you are in a good group at at top 10 bank, you will get almost any interview and at that point it depends on how good you are as a candidate) Also, while money should probably not be a big part of your decision at this stage in your career, you will make more money at PJT for doing the exact same work, which is a nice bonus.
To sum it up: if you really care about brand and prestige (and its totally fine if you do), go to GS and don't feel bad about it - it is a great firm. However, be wary of a few things. GS is not what it was. The "aura" of the firm doesn't exist like it did pre-ipo and the absolute smartest finance kids coming out of undergrad are not all running over each other to end up there like they were 15 ago. In fact, a lot of them, including yourself it seems, are considering going to elite boutiques and personally I think that in 15-20-25 years when the next wave of funds start popping up a good chunk of them will be founded by people who started at EBs. At PJT, your deal teams will be leaner and you will have more interface with the client and senior partners. While of course you will learn a ton at GS, you will probably get more reps and learn a bit more at PJT. Also, if you have interest in sectors aside from industrials, it is definitely worth weighing the fact that at PJT you will get that exposure whether its to HC, TMT, consumer, etc. If you are super keen on industrials, then by all means go ahead and do that 24/7 (to be fair it is quite a diverse coverage group in terms of all the different verticals). Another thing to consider is the people you'll be working with. while this is tough to tell before you actually get there, it seems like you have some sense of each. this should definitely be a factor.
IMO, you should take a minute to actually think about what is attracting you to each place. If one side is "prestige, brand name, clout, etc" and the other is "people, learning experience, exposure, etc" then recognize this! At the end of the day, you can't go wrong with either, they are both outstanding offers. congrats again and let the thread know what you end up deciding!
Wow thank you so much for your thoughtful comment!! This definitely helps a lot in sorting out my priorities and I’ll def keep the thread posted :)
Agreed, but would caveat that FIG (only at Goldman) places as well, if not better, than some of the “main” classic groups.
yep - definitely true. TMT and FIG are probably the two most "famous" groups. Was just saying that TMT, HC, C&R, and Industrials all offer basically the same type of experience
Great comment. Would add a few more things.
Your industry coverage group matters less in your long term career trajectory. Your analyst program is to learn how finance works, rather than to build industry-specific knowledge. At GS, the first two years will be obviously all industrials, but you will still have plenty of chances to switch industries (switching groups, buyside recruiting, MBA, etc.) The sheer size of GS will get you exposed to bigger aspects of finance (i.e. in-depth capital markets processes and wealth of internal resources). PJT will get you exposed to more industries, although your finite amount of time & PJT's strength in certain sectors will inherently limit your exposure anyway. But you will build deeper strategic advisory experiences, as their coverage tends to be more bespoke and esoteric (not that GS isn't.)
I personally think that building your junior career at bulge bracket -> moving to EB at the senior level is the best move, if you are interested in banking. Buy-side recruiting is really based on individual performance at the level of GS / PJT. You will have more responsibilities at PJT. If you want flexibility, say you wake up one day and decide to start making beauty products, even your manufacturer in a podunk town will have heard of GS. Can't really go wrong either way.
Also, don't base your decision on people fresh out of college. Talk to your finance professors, mentors, your dad's friends, and someone you look up to at a senior level.
GS industrials. Understand your hesitancy, but with a long term perspective, GS will be the better brand name and you can switch to another industry group if needed way easier.
As an A2 who’s gotten crushed at a MM the past two years, I’d rather have worked the incremental amount of hours more for the Goldman brand. Plus the learning experience will be great. I have mentors in F500 industrials corp dev who cannot speak highly enough of the GS industrials team.
hey, i'm a fellow class of 26 kid and i have an interview for pjt which is my last shot at banking - if there is any way you can give insight into the process i'd really appreciate it. sorry can't help out here but congrats on your offers!
non NYC right?
it is NYC, haven't formally heard back but got a call last week asking if i have other processes going on
statistically speaking you have about a 25% chance of landing an offer at this point
What part of your ass did you pull that out of
I would personally take PJT. You’re gonna get worked at both but GS IND is a sweatshop (consistent 3am nights and very demanding culture). I can’t speak to the PJT M&A culture but I expect you’ll be paid more, especially if you end up staying on A2A, and with just as top notch exits but personally I would avoid GS IND.
Both top tier. Personally would take the GS name and sweat it out for 2 years for the exit.
Anyone have insight into PJT M&A culture and hours?
Do you have R1?
There’s only one right answer here. It’s not based off exits or brand name. GS industrials is one of the sweatiest groups on the street. College sophomores here salivate over GS but you forget that you actually have to make it through 2 years in the group. Very high chance you burn out of finance. PJT M&A will give you similar exits, and while overhyped and still sweaty, it’s much less likely you end up burning out in the group. Go PJT.
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