At the analyst level, what are the differences between getting placed into a top group vs a "bottom" group at GS/MS?
In terms of comp, exit opps, experience, etc. Are there some places that would only recruit at a top group and not the others, for example?
Also heard that there aren't really "bottom" groups at these 2
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I think group rankings within “top” banks is kind of ridiculous. The comp is the exact same for analysts. Deal flow is not related to how “good” the group is (RE might have great deal flow, but people consider it “bottom”). Exits are basically the same. I think people who are hell bent on MF PE tend to go to “top” groups, rather than “top” groups sending people to MFs. Being in a top group may put you in a marginally better spot, but the difference can easily be overcome by person in “worse” group putting in more effort. I worked at one of the two mentioned banks and can guarantee you that at least someone from every group went to a MF PE shop and the good majority of people who wanted to go to PE ended up at UMM firms, regardless of their group.
100% agree. I also worked at one of the two firms mentioned and there is way too much emphasis placed on groups at WSO. Deal flow does not matter for on-cycle recruiting given timing of processes and the average analyst in GS TMT / MS M&A is not better than an analyst in GS IND, MS FIG, etc. The group placement process at a firm like GS is very random and it’s just luck of the draw (unless you have alumni connections). If you’re at MS or GS, you will get interviews at most MF PE firms and at that point, it’s on you to perform.
With that being said what if you’re in a more “limiting” group at one of these firms ... P&U/NRG
Similarly with the “envy is the thief of joy” thread, I’ve found being in the top group of a company - any company - does more to your perceived joy than the company you work for. With some exceptions of course.
Would this also be true at JPM?
If so, what are the weaker groups?
anyone know if Morgan Stanley includes Capital Markets in their placement process for traditional IBD? Wondering the risks there for ending up in a non-traditional IB group.
Nope MS Has a completely separate capital markets division
Success is as dangerous as failure.
Hope is as hollow as fear.
Tops: usually dominant, assertive, confident, sexy
Bottoms: annoying, submissive, deserve to be disrespected
Based on every comment you make… You seem like a middle
I’m a top unless you went to a target school ;)
bump
Hot take but in my experience, even the "bottom" groups at MS/GS tend to do better in MF/UMM PE recruiting than the "top" groups at Citi/BAML/CS etc.
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