How are SA Rejects thought of?
I've just completed my 8 week summer internship at a second tier investment bank (think Abn Amro, BarCap) in M&A (natural resources sector team) only to be told that they have a freeze on hiring for my particular desk.
I just wanted to know that when applying for IBD next month for FT would I be looked at as a XXXX Reject (someone who couldnt even get hired by a second tier investment bank), and in that case throw my CV away?
I'd like to hear from people that have taken some part in selecting students whether you are an analyst/associate etc.
It's something thats been on my mind over the weekend and just wanted some sort of clarification whether HR/firms think in the same way!
Appreciate your comments and time.
how will they know you weren't given an offer. You're not going to put that on your resume are you? You could have gotten an offer but you chose to go for a first tier bank.
Plus, I think they would understand the current hiring conditions, as they are more than likely experiencing the same ones.
Appreciate your comments indian-banker and j-rad..
I won't be saying whether i got an offer or not . . .and i do hope they acknowledge it like j-rad says..
if asked why i left them, would it be adequate for me to say something like i wanted to strive for something better, or go into detail and say things like the team hasn't closed a deal this year!
"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today" - Malcolm X
Your resume should not list whether you got an offer or not.
Interview questions may either be: 1) So, you interned here. Why don't you want to go back? or 2) Did you get an offer?
Dont' ever knock the bank you interned yet. It's not classy and you never know what your interviewer's thoughts (maybe he/she worked there once or something). Don't assume some other bank is "better" because every bank has pros/cons.
Fair enough, I'm just thinking its going to be quite difficult to strike a balance, that is come up with a good reason why you left yet not say anything bad.
Perhaps I could say something like they concentrated on principle transactions and few third party advisory which wasnt something i wanted to do this early on...
"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today" - Malcolm X
Number 1 reason all time to not come back to the bank FT after doing SA:
I did not enjoy the group, and was hoping to explore some other options in different industries or product lines that I think may interest me more.
I didn't read the rest of your post, but would not lump Barclays with ABN AMRO.
"someone who couldnt even get hired by a second tier investment bank"
If that's really your attitude, why did you take the job in the first place?
Just be honest -- say there was a hiring freeze, but that you made sure to work hard every day to learn as much as you can and you're grateful for the opportunity. This is not the time to belittle your company or speak negatively of the opportunity (as it would only make you look bad, since you worked there). Rather, you can state that even despite the fact that your company froze hiring, you met a number of senior folks at your bank who can speak to the quality of your work (if that's true), learned a lot, and are thankful for having had the chance to work with them. The point is, these are tough times for EVERYONE -- you can be sure that people understand that hiring is just not ideal in this market -- but if you can demonstrate some humility and gratitude, you'll be viewed very favorably. Heck, even if you were only among a small minority NOT to get an offer, demonstrating good character could still land you a full-time offer.
You might be surprised that this works, especially with all the chatter on this forum about modeling skills, PowerPoint skills, and so forth -- but good people with good character are hard to find in this business, so don't underestimate yourself just because you didn't get a returning offer.
This is one of the better posts I've seen on here lately. Good post numi.
big unit; that is a good reason, unfortunately i actually liked natural resources, but i appreciate your input..
JuwannaMann said "If that's really your attitude, why did you take the job in the first place?"
mate someone joking said this to me after i told them i hadn't received an offer, and its been on my mind since, thought id clarify it with everyone. I was under the impression that getting a summer internship in the current climate would be beneficial regardless of where!
numi this is the type of clarification i was looking for. I will go full steam ahead in applying for m&a for FT!
PS: I called Lehman Brothers (London) HR and they said they may not take any more ppl for FT other than there current intern class!
"The future belongs to those who prepare for it today" - Malcolm X
During the boom times (04 - 07), not receiving an offer was a huge red flag. You would still get the interviews you wanted, but during final rounds 'not getting an offer from the summer' was a discussing point.
Nowadays, it's not that much of a red flag because of market conditions.
I agree with Numi, say 'hiring freeze' or 'market conditions' were the reasons why you didn't get an offer.
joefish, if you have nothing useful or even funny to say, you're best off not saying anything. You do more harm than good by being disruptive and commenting on things where you have no real experience or expertise. Then again, if you want to reaffirm to us the kind of person most of us already think you are, do carry on...
lets make a mob and beat joefish up. what a fag.
indian-banker, I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt but I feel like for someone who says they work in banking there are basic things you should know. For example the very first thing you ask a kid who's summered at a bank before is whether or not they received a full time offer (and you check up on it). This practice may or may not be different in satellite offices in different countries, but I doubt it.
Second, agreed with the people who know what they're talking about (numi and GnT). Don't lie, don't make up bullshit excuses (I wanted to work in a different product line, I didn't get the experience I wanted, etc.). You think your interviewers can't smell that BS from a mile away?
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