I am losing faith in Meritocracy
I got an offer for an EB today. I'm happy. It's in an industry and a location that I love. I accepted it immediately, and I've signed and sent my offer letter. Everything really did work out for the best.
But I think we can agree: this whole process has been ridiculous.
I know there are a ton of qualified kids out there that haven't gotten offers. I know there are less qualified kids who did get offers. I don't think the only difference was networking or storytelling or quality of resume or school or anything else.
It seems like at least half of this process is like rolling dice.
That's fine if it is, but it would be nice if the firms could acknowledge that. Instead, everyone who wins says it's meritocratic and everyone who loses says its rigged and unfair. It's not a good situation. I think I would have felt so much better if a bank had said "We had so many incredible applications. After doing some basic screening we entered all the candidates in a lottery for progression to the next round. Unfortunately, your name was not selected in the lottery. We wish you the best..." Honestly, if I were ever put in charge of an IB recruitment process, I think I might do something like that.
Athens did that. Political candidates were selected through a combination of democratic elections and random chance. It really cut down on corruption and nepotism. With banking recruiting, I think it could cut down on the BS that some of these kids have to go through. And it definitely wouldn't hurt the banks--if they cut their applications in half by chance, they would still have plenty of great candidates to fill up those spots.
The point is, I would believe in a system like this so much more than the one we currently have. I know there is a good deal of merit involved, but there is so much put into this black box that it doesn't make sense. That's not a system we want to have. It doesn't inspire confidence in the industry or the people in it from those trying to break in or outsiders.
I'm thankful for the offer I have. I know that so many qualified people like me were rejected in the process, and I know I was lucky. My heart goes out to those who are still searching for an offer.
Maybe we, the next analyst class at our respective banks, can do something to make this process more transparent, meritocratic, and fair. Maybe we can make it make more sense.
Everything is random chance not just your interview. Did you choose your parents? Did you choose your IQ? Did you choose the ways you are predetermined to be talented in some areas and not in others? Yes interviewing and getting an offer is not a pure meritocracy because nothing is. Look up the data, criminals sentenced before the judge has lunch or goes home for the night get worse sentences for the same crime just because the judge is in a bad mood. One misstep or comment that is taken wrong by an interviewer, one alumni doesn’t like you, or simply the person on the other end of the table is hungry could bury your chances. Congrats on your offer, but to everyone else remember to cast a wide net, control what you can, and be humble when success comes your way because no one has every truly earned all they have on “merit”.
Someone has been reading Rawls.
The fact that I did not choose those things is what makes them morally important.
bro why is everyone on this site so obsessed about IQ. Always on about how it's natural and talking about their SAT scores correlating with their IQ.
Hmm, maybe because IQ is the most important factor in determining life outcomes?
Lol, I think most people would be pissed to find out the were rejected by a lottery system
I think your bottom part got at the reality of it a bit more. Like everything, life isn't perfect. Perfect meritocracy doesn't exist, but we can get pretty close at times. I will say, if people are truly great candidates, the likelihood that their entire process doesn't work out is incredibly low. Yes, they could have gotten removed from a process undeservingly, but the odds that happens 6 times or more is low. If it does happen 6+ times, odds are they are doing something wrong, or they are not doing enough. Yes, this is a competitive process, but I am a firm believer that you will get your opportunity if you are deserving of it (you work for it). So yes, imperfect meritocracy on the smaller scales, but the bigger picture is a meritocracy IMO.
That's life. Everything is rolled on a dice. Like really. The best you can do is to alter that odds to your favor. Beyond that it's still dice roll. If you have done all you can to improve your odds but still failed nonetheless? Chin up, it's not your fault.
Agree that it's not all fair. But as someone mentioned, law of large numbers put things in your control. If you are the full package and have the hustle, good things happen.
Here's an anecdote - I recruited from a very non-target state school last year. Multiple degrees, 4.0, extracurriculars. Was able to hustle my way to an interview literally everywhere. And I mean everywhere - Qatalyst, PJT RSSG, BX PE, all of the EBs and BBs I pursued hard. Did I get offers from all of them? Nope. But I did from a bunch and got both MS/GS as well as EVR/CVP.
So yeah, theres lots of uncertainty at the individual levels (individual firms, interviews, networking convos, etc). But if you really are a top kid with a lights-out resume, ability to get bankers to go to bat for you, and willingness to grind interview prep, you aren't striking out at all of the top 10-15 firms.
probably dad is in C-suit at F500 or something of that level
Who on earth said finance was a meritocracy lmfao
Well said. Congrats
If you think that process is unfair just wait until you see what goes on in the bank. Anyway congrats on your offer but you’re a bit too early to be trying to fix the system. Go out and celebrate.
Dynamite post analyst.
Yes, life has a stochastic component. That’s why “keep your options open” is generally great life advice. It’s real options theory in action. I’m 48 and seen friends killing it in late 20s/early 30s doing MBS work, only to have the mortgage crisis tank their career. Keep your options open. Specifically, the classic “hang out in grad school to ride out the storm” option open. There are worse options than drink specials with yoga panted coeds in grad school…life isn’t just fastballs. It will throw you curve balls eventuality. Options help you hit the curves.
I never tell people it's a meritocracy, I tell them it's a numbers game.
Things you can control:
- Get your resume to look like all the other top candidates (high grades, good school ideally, good internships, good campus involvement, etc.)
- Network, network, network; students always ask what they should be doing and I tell them get your name in front of as many bankers at as many banks as possible (this is also a numbers game)
- Know your technicals cold (use the WSO database to look at the interview reviews for each bank - they tell you the questions you'll be asked)
- Apply to as many banks as possible (note: if you didn't network then this doesn't matter, you probably aren't getting an interview)
Best you can do is increase the top of your funnel by networking and applying everywhere - from there your resume looks very similar to hundreds or even thousands of other candidates. It's a numbers game from there but if you can make your funnel as big as possible and increase your chances of getting though each stage (with a good resume and good interview skills) then your chances go up. Nothing is guaranteed though
There's little to no meritocracy in life. One of the first hallmarks of growing up is realizing that 99.99% of your life is determined by luck.
In my opinion chance (luck? whatever you want to call it) accounts for the majority of your lot in life. Starts with the family you were born into, the resources available to you, the ability to stay healthy and avoid family tragedies, knowing the right random person to guide you into a "good" school or trade and choosing the "correct" profession (tech in 2010 vs law or whatever) then knowing the right person to get you a high-paying job, capitalizing on whatever random opportunities present themselves and holding your breath that nothing crumbles.
I randomly ended up being an interventional radiologist. Could have been better, could have been worse. My cousin lost his mother at a young age to a terrible disease. This lead his father to quit his job and drain a lot of his financial resources to care for her. After she died my cousing, understandably, went through a rough patch mentally. He got into marijuana. He eventually got caught smoking pot in high school, lost his job and struggled in classes. Meets a woman with a similar rough spot and next thing you know they are both trying meth and are now homeless, in-and-out of jail with two young ones that they have since lost custody over. I am not absolving him of his string of poor decisions whatsoever but he also faced some serious shit that was out of his control during an incredibly formative time in life. Also unlucky that weed was illegal and highly stigmatized back then too.
So its a fucking trip to think about him as a homeless drug addict when I'm living a reasonably comfortable life and we started near the same spot. I was extremely lucky and haven't made any awful decisions, whereas he was extremely unlucky and made a couple of life changing bad decisions before the age of 20. That's how thin the line we are walking is.
So OP try to appreciate the positive things in your life and thank your lucky stars you are in a position to be successful. You cannot control the process and ensure fairness. It cannot exist. Others are not necessarily at fault but you mustn't fret about the inequity of it all. You don't know if or when life will throw some unfair bullshit your way.
I would not have expected a radiologist on this forum, unless one is looking for a career change. I am curious, if you are willing to share, about the reason.
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