I'm NOT a Trader
Hey Monkeys!
Got a bit of a problem. Been networking with HR/Bankers etc. and people keep telling me I should become a trader and do not 'fit' Banking (been rejected pre-CV screen quite a bit so maybe they are right?)
Their reasons:
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My math scores at university (and throughout my life in general) are higher than anything else. I find math easy because once you get it, you can apply it, and in exams its easier to score highly vs an essay subject. I'm not mathematical genius though and don't really get those 'brainteaser logical puzzle' type things they often talk about in Trading interviews. (I do study finance/accounting etc. modules at uni this coming year)
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Bankers can talk about 'anything' and I'm very 'too the point/brief'. Its true that my general knowledge isn't the best in the world, but I can hold up a conversation if I need to. At work, I tend to say what needs to be said instead of loads of BS. And I get on with stuff, don't procrastinate/loiter. That said I'm not anti-social and pretty personable when I need to be. So I'm not sure if that's a bad thing...
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EU languages. I only speak/read/write English. That's fine for S&T NOT for IBD (in Europe anyway).
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Hours. I haven't really done anything to prove I can stay awake for 24 hours and cope e.g. no army background etc, apart from the IBD internships. But then... I'm an undergrad... what do they expect? lol
I have worked in Banking and have shadowed Trader's... hated trading so much and liked Banking much much much more. I'm not really interested in the financial markets e.g. what % the FTSE 100 changes daily. I love working on deals though/doing valuations/pitchbooks etc have grown on me too.
Any ideas of how I can break out of this 'get into Trading' mould? Just network like crazy and hope for the best?
They're not telling you, "You should be a trader. :) " They're telling you, "We don't want you working at our firm."
Exactly. They're just being nice. Honestly I would just say you're just not a banker bro.
I'd ignore the previous 2 replies - muppets.
That's exactly what happened to me, couldn't get a single interview for M&A. Then at a networking event this GS sales woman started chatting to me. Essentially she convinced me to go work on the trading floor (sales), i started applying for sales roles at the banks I hadn't finished submitting applications to, and got offered interview in all 3 places I applied to.... Investment banking is not for everyone, no matter what your peers are telling you. If you are better suited for trading you will do better in trading, and it will pay off in the long run.
Reason I had never applied for sales role: I had read liar's poker and it had completely put me off. Just be ready to be someone's bitch for a year though, that's the only tough part I reckon for a trader to put up with. Then you get to buy low and sell high for a living, how much fun is that!
@ triplectz - but the feedback was that I did fit IBD etc - I screwed up technicals (my mistake tbh)
@ Press0 - so I should not even try for banking? :(
@ Disjoint - I PM'd you if this is ok
Another reason why I don't think I suit Trading: I don't play any 'extreme' sports and am not a poker player etc. Don't think I have the heart for Trading...
You definitely need to get better at selling yourself. So far you've said that:
All of these things are important in banking, and, if you portray yourself as not being into any of the above, that is probably your fit issue. The main thing I notice is that you really seem to lack confidence, which can kill you in interviews. Also, there is no excuse to miss technical questions or brain teasers. You can learn most of them through interview guides (wish those existed when I was in college).
@TechBanking:
Not sure confidence was an issue during interviews as thats also a positive comment I got in my feedback. I have lost some confidence after interviews because things did not work out and because I'm confused over my next steps... But I think that's pretty normal isn't it?
I really don't think my personality is cut out for Trading but I may be completely wrong. I have no idea how to figure this out though other then to go with my gut/research/comments from people I have networked with. Feel free to comment.
Hahaha, you sir have some of the best comments on WSO.
Uninformed --> Idiot --> Evil
Good point. In one particular BB, the analyst who interviewed me liked me and even though I screwed up some technical questions (I either didn't know or knew part of the answer) they moved me to the next round saying I was smart and the training they would provide would 'sort me out'. When I had my second round of interviews, I had studied technicals better, got a lot more correct, but some I still got stuck on a few (I got them correct though after thinking about it) or knew half the answer too the question (this didn't happen too often). I didn't get something completely wrong/had no idea like in Round 1 though. I was dinged for not knowing the technicals - in depth - which is important. This is why I purchased BIWS and the WSO guides to prep better. My positive feedback was that I did fit IBD, they liked me/would want to work with me etc but given my experience with both interviews at the same BB - I'm getting mixed messages.
No one in an interview (for IBD) has ever said to be 'become a Trader' even when I follow up with them. Recruiters have suggested it when I've gone to CV workshops and also have friends in IB who said that I should do Trading. The said, several people also tell me that I should not give up on banking if thats what I really want to do.
IBD seems like a better fit for me personally... but given my lack of interviews otherwise I'm not so sure anymore. I also did that GS 'find your fit' test - Investment Banking, FICC and Legal come up as my top 3 options.
You're really over analyzing what happened in your interviews and the entire situation. No one is keeping score of your answers or timing your responses in interviews. There is no personality or fit test to tell you what role you should be in within an investment bank.
that TED talk from ms schulz was frikkin mind blowing
being wrong is OK! and i wish i could remember this truth more! so that maybe i could learn from those instances on in increasing frequency
I had a lot of foreign policy / public policy experience during undergrad and was told during ib interviews that I should join the Department of State. Didn't stop me getting an offer at another bank - I just learned how to tailor my interview to emphasise my IB credentials. It's all part of the fun.
They don't doubt I'm bad for IBD during the interview stage.... its the pre-interview stage. Even though I have relevant internships, and my application is tailored towards IBD, I still don't make it to the interview stage in the vast majority of cases. The examples above are just the minority of experiences I go through.
Why don't you just post your resume here then, maybe it does in fact look like you are interested in trading.
Because I have had complications in the past (on another forum) so don't post it up on public forums. I can PM you the link though.
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