For SA/FT analyst roles, is it seen as much easier to get UBS/Deutche or even CS/Citi than it is to get the top tier banks (or top tier groups)? Coming from a target school with a high GPA.
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Yup
Harder to get into the top tier groups like GS TMT/MS M&A, but general SA recruiting is a weird mix. Some people get rejected from a “lower” BB but end up with GS as their only offer the whole recruiting season. Lots of variables come into play: your network at the firm, the firm’s relationship with you school, how you do on interview day, and so on.
This^
Not really - GS/JPM are potentially easier for diversity compared to the rest of the BB.
I’d honestly say no. Both are extremely competitive and require the same level of technical and behavioral prep.
In recent years, I think timing has been a bigger determinant than competency. For example, the year I recruited for internships, a select few banks finished recruiting several months before GS and JPM even posted applications. So some of the best students who were able to get one of the first offers on the Street were faced with the difficult decision of whether to take a good offer or turn down the bird-in-hand to try for a great offer. Some of the best banks ran their processes so late that their candidate pool was likely comprised of students who either didn't receive any other offers, decided to roll the dice and turn down outstanding offers, or accepted an early offer with the intent to renege if they received a better one.
I was one of the lucky ones who received one of the first offers on the Street, and I took the risk-averse approach of accepting it before even getting a chance to apply to GS/JPM. I'm very happy with where I ended up, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't frustrating to see the SA recruiting process become less of a meritocracy.
At least in EMEA it's completely random. People are the same kind of dumb/smart across all the good banks and it's just random which bank you end up with. Everyone I know took the first EB/BB offer they got as everyone generally applies to all good banks. No one in their right mind would just apply for GS/MS and forget UBS or DB, correct?
For example, I got rejected every single time from Deutsche (around 4 times lol) but ended up in a top group of a US BB.
It's therefore kinda dumb that some funds/recruiters are geared towards GS/MS/JPM. If you're in a somewhat decent group, you'll get swamped with deals either way IMO. Also, there is 0 difference in people's abilities whether you're from GS or UBS.
Can only SB this as it is very accurate.
Well yes, people do apply to all the banks... but if one gets a DB/UBS offer in the beginning and then receives a GS/MS offer later on, obvsly he/she will renege on the first offer. Seen many cases like this coming from a continental EU b-school. I have seen many top candidates get rejected from top BBs, but in general, there are stronger candidates at these top BBs compared to lower tier BBs based on my observation.
Reneging is up to your own discretion. I know people who did it and some who didn't, but yes it does happen quite frequently.
What I mean with no difference in quality is that after a year or two, there is 0 difference if GS/MS/JPM or other BBs/EBs. As an example, the fact that all these banks compete on the same processes, if you take into account their sector strengths, is proof of that theory.
It really boils down to yourself, if you're a chill dude who can pass the airplane test as well as your ability to go further than the required minimum i.e. not just turning mark-ups and to do your own thinking about the "why". What I do agree on is that I see GS/MS/JPM as a tad more target-oriented than the other BBs/EBs.
It's not only my own observation but also the reality that many people can "just do" the analyst job. It's not rocket science by any means and it doesn't matter where or what you studied but rather your own stamina and willingness. The "IQ" threshold is just not that high that you absolutely need to be a Cambridge-educated physics PhD. As most European unis offer a similar quality of education and we all more or less learn with the same textbooks, target fixation makes no sense nowadays. Most of us are bachelor- or masters-educated, where the quality of your professors/uni really doesn't matter as all of your "intellectual advancement" happens at home or at the library.
Much of the prior experiences and studies seem to get marginalised over time and the work you put into educating yourself about IB stuff and the ability to see through the myriads of business models and their respective levers as well as the ability to formulate and articulate your own investment theses, appear to be the common denominator of successfully exiting to the buy-side or become a better banker who actually understands his clients. The real "abilities" only surface after a few years of experience IMO.
As a personal example, I've worked at quite a few places now and the two strongest juniors I worked with were at a mid-BB and at an LMM/MM M&A shop.
It's just my own perspective as a fairly junior 1st year
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