Is it true that women in IB are hostile to each other?
I’m asking this as a woman interested in IB. I’ve been seeing a few comments on here saying that women in IB are hostile to each other. How true is this? What are examples of ways in which women in IB treat each other?
When networking, will the women in the IB industry be less likely to help me compared to men in IB?
Is this just general competitiveness against each other that exists amongst both men and women in the industry (which I can fully handle)? Or does it go beyond that?
I have been in many situations (at university, social activities etc.) where I’m one of the few women or even the only woman in the room. I feel completely indifferent in term of comfort interacting with men or women. So it’s not like I need specifically other women to get along with. But it’s never nice having too many individuals who you’re just completely unable to get along with.
Also is this different in the UK (where I’m at) as opposed to the US and other parts of the world?
From what I have witnessed in our team - no, they are fairly supportive.
During recruiting (as a non-target), it was the women I connected with who moved mountains for me. Don’t let what WSO says scare you—networking is about taking a thousand shots. If you give them a reason to believe in you, you’ll find women who will go to bat for you.
*From US. Accepted EB offer. Don’t get discouraged. You got this!
generalizations are bad, so don't let a generalization dictate your career and opportunities
try it and find out, again, you're already putting barriers/misconceptions into your head.
P.S. Now, this is not to say that you'll connect with 100% of men or women you reach out to. Some will help more, some less, some will like you more, some less. That's just how the adult world is.
There are jerks of all genders and great people of all genders. Impossible to paint with a broad brush.
At my bank the WORST people I worked with have always been women unfortunately. They always behave like they are better than everyone else (including other women), while working less and often being hired because of gender policies
Misogynist alert. Maybe they act better than everyone else, because of the belief they are only there due to 'quotas'? I have seen so many women who went to target schools and are top performers, getting accused of being 'quota hires' by guys who went to non-targets and are not rated highly. There are high-performing women and low-performing women, just like with men.
Women I work with are absolutely GOATed – so good at their job, some now becoming leaders of their funds and honestly couldn't be happier that I got such good training under them (very demanding, but very fair). I was very surprised to see such good commercial/technicals with the social side they balance very well – so echoing the above, pls don't take generalizations...
lol sure
you sound like a woman
I think it depends more on the company itself than making a broad generalization across the board. My peers have had awful experiences with women at Citi, GS, and Fidelity (technically not IB but they had a huge rep for being super cliquey). At MS, it was mixed. At JPM, women were generally pretty supportive.
Worked at Citi under a Sr woman who had been in the mix since the 80's. We had several female analysts, but she liked working with me better so it ruffled some feathers. She was awesome but also overly analytical to the 9th degree. I loved working with her, but a lot of juniors couldn't get her idiosyncrasies. She liked me because it never bothered me. She wasn't a great mentor in the traditional sense, but I learned a ton from her. I also helped keep her out of the muck that would bog her down as she was so precise in a way that made her comfortable/happy with my work. It's a different world that you are all coming up in now where these things matter a lot more.
Essentially, I had a woman MD who liked me and wanted to work with me. At the time some women were upset because she wasn't a mentor, but none of them understood how to work with her and learn to take time to understand what she knew because she was the exact opposite of touchy/feely/emotional. She was one of the best people I've ever worked with but didn't fit into the norm of a proper mentor, but she generated lots of revenue while helping me a lot.
A lot of these conversations grind down due to junior expectations and not understanding the needs of a senior leader or figuring out how to make them win, which trickles down.
I think it’s fair to generalize here: people notice patterns because the shit that sticks to the wall is hard to miss, and IB (or any other high pressure, hierarchical environment like law firms) is a perfect petri-dish for spotting it. Acting like humans are pure logic processors is itself irrational; we’re hormone-soaked primates stamped by millions of years of evolution, and no ivory-tower HR syllabus can wish that away.
Men usually treat hierarchy like a ladder. There’s an impersonal camaraderie: "I help you now, maybe you help me later". If the ROI’s there, great; if not, no hard feelings - just numbers.
Women are often pushed into more relational hierarchies; status isn’t just climbing the ladder; it’s being central in the network. Competition can feel personal, even identity-based. The queen-bee effect sums it quite well: a senior woman who clawed her way up may not instantly bond with the next junior.
Yes, this happens, but take it with a grain of salt; group culture and personalities matter more. I think it usually goes 3 ways:
Neutral – just coworkers; no extra help, no drama.
Positive – you remind a senior woman of her younger self; she turns into a killer mentor.
Negative – she feels threatened (consciously or not) and doors stay shut.
UK vs. US: Same knife-fight, different accents. Not much of difference underneath if you look closely.
Most folks, whatever the gender, are just trying to stay afloat. Grind hard, deliver, and nice people tend to appear here and there.
interesting
Breaking news: broads and their drama not fit for the workplace
I am a man so I don't know. But, when I did my first internship, it was me and another woman. The manager/staffer (it was the same person) would always very happily set up catch-ups with me, was very supportive, and I found out at the end, was the single most vocally supportive person in me getting a return to the bank. I was told from others on the team that she very much liked me as an intern.
The other intern was belittled (asked if she even wanted to do this job), was apparently the recipient of hostile behaviour, and was stood up no less than five times for catch ups with the manager. This is what she told me but the behaviour was also noticed by an Associate on the team. The intern hypothesized that it was because she was the type of person who didn't like to see other women succeed. Obviously she didn't get a return offer and I don't know what she does now.
This is only one story, and as I said, I am a man so I don't know how it is. I am in another team FT from where I did the internship and people here seem very supportive. We have a woman MD, women seem to be lifting each other up. But again, I don't know the dynamics behind the scenes because I am not one.
Dated a female IBer. It depends on the shop, but generally yes based on the horror stories she's told me. Women tear each other down in finance because there are still remnants of sexism + toxic industry. Give it another generation and I think it'll start to get better somewhat. The industry will still stay toxic though. Hyper competitive shrinking red ocean industry. I've heard S&T is actually great for women because it's far more meritocratic and female traders or saleswomen can easily get others to STFU by pointing to their book and the amount of money they brought it. Lots of women thrive in eat what you kill environments, be it S&T, Real Estate (traditional or commercial), energy marketing & origination, or any actual sales focused role. Sometimes women are even better at sales then men because they're better at empathizing and building relationships than men even, so they can generate repeat business over years + have a solid rep being their for their clients.
Also men tear each other down at the higher levels as well, and "fiefdoms" emerge at the Director and MD levels. Becomes more like a Roman senate blood path at some places, but that's just human nature. So it's not just women that don't support each other. This also exists in Tech as well, so it's not just specific to finance.
Plenty of typos in there but idgaf rn guys, you understand what I mean.
I think its probably an old school thing when there was very few women in the industry, and had to be absolute killers and grind 5x times harder than male counterparts to make it to the top. I am lucky enough to know a few of these women, and as much as I have infinite respect for them, I could definitely imagine most of them being hostile like that.
The woman I referenced above was far from hostile. She just wanted an analyst to figure out what she wanted. Once I grasped that, it became really easy. The trick was learning what she wanted vs what she asked for. Funny enough, an older cousin had worked with her before in the same group a few years before I started, and she once told me we were the only 2 juniors who got her, but she mentioned his name...she didn't know we were even related, but I told her at that point. She thought it was hilarious because there was a strong family resemblance. I also think she liked us because she was a 6'3" former tennis player, and we could both stand and look here in the eye. Tiny things like that seemed to matter to her.
You are actually asking two distinctly different questions. Does being a woman help as you network and get a job with other women, absolutely. Use that to your advantage - I honestly view it like if you went to the same college / university as someone.
Now, once you join the workforce are women hostile to each other, yes. I’ve seen it anecdotally, but studies back it up, women mentors are known to be harsher and more critical of their women mentees then men and women peers are harsher to each other.
Long story short, for networking no once working yes.
In my experience, overwhelmingly so
I'm not attracted to the type that do well, because their traits are just far from feminine
My wife isn't in finance, but she is very successful. Having her stable income while I've pursued more entrepreneurial things has been a win. We plus our kids, private school and all, can live off whatever either of us is making.
My wife is super feminine...the harder part then is whose career gets prioritized in a given moment when both are busy. We don't have nannies or drivers at this point. Drivers for older kids are becoming a thing where we live. Am looking into it since our school and summer activities aren't that close to our house.
From my experience (in the US) definitely not. OFC there are exceptions to this, but overall women want to see other women in finance. Last summer I did ER Buyside and the female interns were so cool and it was a great environment. Ive definitely noticed that female managers and interviewers are much more ~challenging~ than men, but i think its mainy because they have high standards. I believe the trend is definitely getting better.
It’s hard to tell which of these comments are complete satire, which are soaked in irony, and which are real, so giving a real answer:
LOOL bad take
And on your last point - really? You don't understand why women in general are less willing to tolerate the harshness of society?
My IB group had women who were kind and amazing to everyone except other women. It was honestly hilarious to watch. So much woman drama.
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