Morgan Stanley NYC vs. Moelis NYC
Hey WSO,
Basically have offers from the banks in question (MS NY and Moelis NY) as a new Associate. Both offers are generalist (for now - MS places us into groups a little down the line). Wanted to get your perspectives on how you would approach this decision. So far, I've liked the people that I have met at both banks and my goal is to stay in IB for the longer term (open to any potential, rare buyside opp that I may choose to pursue in a couple years, in case one of these banks is vastly better than the other with regards to IB Associate-level buyside placement).
From where I stand, MS has the wider brand recognition but Moelis is likely to have significantly higher pay at the ASO level and onwards. I've heard conflicting things about Moelis' sweatshop reputation (some say it's still very much there while others claim it's overblown as of 2020 and is as good/bad as any other EB). I have a strong network of alum (CBS/Wharton/Booth) at both banks.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Went through a similar situation choosing between top BB/EB. I went with the BB. I spoke to many in the field and they all told me to take the name over the money considering I was looking to be a banker long-term. It is easier to get promoted throughout a BB and you gain exposure to all products and services that a BB has to offer which will be beneficial for you down the line. They also told me if I choose to leave to a different firm, it is much easier to lateral from BB to EB than EB to BB.
At the end of the day, you can't go wrong with either and unfortunately the tough decision really comes down to brand name vs compensation. I hope this gave you a little more perspective from my similar situation going through summer analyst recruiting
I had to make a similar decision between top BB vs EB as an Associate as well, ended up choosing the EB. No regrets. I've heard the Moelis Associates have an insanely awesome time - everyone seemed very close, work hard play hard mindset with tons of nights out together. Awesome bullpen and heard that people really go the extra mile to help each other out when it comes to exits. Every Associate there that I've talked to has thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
Don't think brand name should be a consideration if you're planning on staying in finance long term - it wasn't for me. Let's be honest, everyone in IB/PE knows what Moelis is lmao.
Damn - good for you my guy, great choices all around. If you've already gone through recruiting, then you know MS is the closest to an EB that any BB will get - there are no wrong decisions here, so I'll just mention a few additional points.
One thing to remember is that at MS, you are going to have to do the whole networking/recruiting process all over again when you place out of the pool. Some people love that and excel at is, others just want to get and find their group naturally. Are you going to be upset if you place into a group that is not your first choice?
I would also think about the cultures - are you more apt to do well in the hard charging, work hard party hard fratmosphere of Moelis or the still-fun, relaxed but more political scene at Morgan Stanley?
Unless you're pretty set on a long term career in banking, I would go with MS for the following reasons:
Broader experience in terms of M&A and capital raising, which will be useful if you move out of banking
Stronger brand name (out of high finance) again in the case you want to move out of banking
The group placement process from the pool will allow you to get a very good sense of which team you want to work with and the culture of that respective team. Associates don't really need to commit to a group for 6+ months, so you can try out 3-4 different groups and really see what is the best fit for you. The groups are very very different, so I think this is extremely important. The associate pool is also just an awesome place to work, with literally no possibility of Face Time, with the camaraderie of being around a large number of others your age. Basically the same as the analyst experience minus the face time.
If you want to be in banking long term, Moelis will probably make you a lot more money, though, so that is something to consider.
OP here - thanks for the great points! I definitely agree on the broader experience parts and stronger brand name. However, how much of a pay gap are we realistically talking about here?
I know EBs don't really bucket as much so guessing avg. Moelis ASO1 comp would be ~$150K base + 100% bonus (please correct me if I'm wrong!). Would I even come close to this at MS? And would this pay gap widen as I moved up the ladder?
I don't have recent MS associate comp figures, so not the right person to answer this. If I had to take a guess, I would say $30-50k a year at the associate level would be the approximate difference. At the VP level you probably won't get much clarity from anyone on here, as it becomes less standardized in terms of bonus and frankly the VP IB data points on WSO are just few and far between.
A lot of MBA associates at MS used to stay the 3 years as associate and leave after getting the VP promotion (around Feb / March). In that case, I think the trade-off in comp makes sense. Stay beyond that and the difference will likely end up being quite substantial.
Edit: if you do end up going with MS and want thoughts on groups, let me know, happy to help out or at least share my thoughts (which could be dated at this point).