Analysts bitching on WSO
Title says it all. Why are so many analysts bitching out in WSO about “associates/VPs not doing anything” (ie bitching out about having to do their jobs as an analyst)?
Yeah, if your associate doesn’t properly review the key docs, doesn’t create the PPT shells, isn’t providing any guidance or help in XLS, they’re not doing their jobs. However, please stop asking to “divide and conquer” for spreading some comps or creating profiles. This is your job.
The role of an Associate isn’t to do half of yours. Otherwise you would have 2 analysts. The role of an Associate = create the shells, guide the process, communicate with seniors, ideally bring in some industry expertise, review your work, and most importantly manage you (which may mean shield you OR push you).
Sure, if there is a technical piece of modelling, I’ll do it myself, and if I have time I’ll probably create half of the slides myself (in any case, I’ll do the shell), but don’t complain about “doing everything”. You think other people didn’t “do everything” when they were analysts? Do you also think you could run an entire process without guidance ? Good luck with that.
The best way to learn is by doing to stop complaining and start killing it. Your AS / VPs will be a lot more willing to “share the work” once you have the right attitude and stop complaining.
If you “don’t have time”, then start managing your staffer and workload more proactively. I know everyone complains but this is one of the key things you learn (or should learn) in your AN years. In my view, an AN shouldn’t be working on more than 2 live projects, and same for AS (not more than 2-3 live projects if he/she needs to get into the details). VPs can probably take 4-5 if they’re not going into too much details / are not on calls all day.
To be fair, there are a lot of legit complaints. Anyone who's worked through cycles will tell you how much of a grind down markets are. Lots of pitching, lots of useless pitching for MDs who need to show effort, leaner teams as downsizing hits. It's rough times for everyone.
But there are also a lot of main character "everyone is useless" type crybabies. God forbid anyone get in the way of these gods of financial modeling and they actually have to manage people in a people business.
My variation of hard times create hard people is ZIRP creates people who are soft as shit. The days of anyone with a pulse getting a seat are over. This goes from everyone from crybaby analysts up to the useless MDs who just threw companies into the financing markets and walked out with big fees. People actually have to come up with ideas, and really add value to clients to make a living now.
That is not nice!!!
Yeah to one of your last points: the analysts who get staffed and are immediately concerned about “how the work will be split” makes associates not want to split work with you.
For what it’s worth, my best analysts usually get a staffing and pretty much get rolling. I then realize they are taking on too much themselves (if an intense project) and then I proactively split. The ones who are hyper sensitive to having to do routine analysts tasks, I have no interest in helping. The GOAT version of these analysts are staffed on small handful of pitches while I’m getting crushed on multiple sell sides along with useless pitches.
Analysts who are yes-men to every staffing just burn out in 1.5 years. An analyst who cannot manage their capacity and needs a proactive associate to step in to prevent them dying is not a good analyst.
I was planning to work as analyst in IB, but I know that I say yes a lot to other people when I could say no on many things. Could you elaborate little bit what do you mean, I feel like from your comment If I work in IB and say yes to everyone I will get burn away in 1.5 years, what should I do then?
Thank you, crazy to see how entitled some of my (slightly) younger peers are. As if they didn’t know banking would be difficult from the outset. Most of these kids aren’t even in sweaty groups either. They just love crying into the ether. Also suspect there are a lot of folks, who couldn’t even break into investment banking, complaining about how hard IB is, as if they aren’t just LARPing (which is super common enough already with UGs pretending to be MDs)
Dude seriously. 80% of the time I see a post by a “MD” on WSO, it’s obviously a student posting as a caricature that he created based off trolling WSO threads. It’s reached absurd levels. These kids really out here talking about some “I’ve made $6-9MM a year since becoming a group head and now feel bad that I have a few Hampton houses but no legacy” lmao.
to be fair my BB group head made multiples of that in 2021, so it isn’t entirely implausible. Agree that that’s definitely not the norm, as he’s a major rainmaker, but still those numbers aren’t at all unrealistic for strong group heads.
Tik Tok and Reddit told them they’re oppressed for having to actually do work. Crazy what foreign propaganda can do to these kids.
Schools should’ve never ditched the SAT smh.
If anything, the SAT needs to be reformed and made far more g-loaded.
I don't see people making these complaints when they aren't valid.
I just came from a thread complaining that associates aren't reviewing, and most of the responses are just "catch your own mistakes" to an analyst lmao.
I've seen people complain MBA associates aren't helping with work and think their entire job is to review and make orders, which is not the JD and can lead to understandable frustration.
If an Associate is handling the complicated stuff, helping out when they have time, reviewing word and providing guidance as they should, I rarely see analysts complaining.
I think the problem of Associates not reviewing, teaching, and/or taking on some of the load is a much bigger problem than analysts complaining an Associate isn't going 50/50 on deliverables like you said. Actually I've never heard an analyst make that extreme of a complaint.
When you hire a cardboard box in 2020-2021, you will get these incompetent people. Banks have themselves to blame for the entitled asshole analysts who don’t like working as well as the incompetent associates that people bitch about being oblivious to what’s going on. Maybe Centerview or Goldman should have given me an offer instead of the brain dead people they decided to hire (I’m salty about my recruitment cycle)
New MBA associates for the first year should split the work 50/50. They do have prior work experience but not in banking so they do need to understand the nitty gritty
i think a lot of the issues are when a new MBA associate comes in and just delegates / “reviews” which is BS.
I’ve even heard someone say they stub associates need to essentially be an analyst themselves initially and do well to earn an analyst. Since at the end of the day, the materials and analysis have to get done and you can’t have an associate that’s only ever “reviewed and delegated”
yup C has mba stubs basically be anl. How else can you learn how to aso if you can’t diy. End up with asos who don’t know how to do / fix a model in a tight situation
I don’t think you’re talking about the analysts were thinking. Most of the posts are about analysts who aren’t getting any guidance on their work/VPs refusing to guide them on things once. You can’t expect a new hire to know exactly what they’re doing.
Work split? Yeah an analyst shouldn’t complain about spreading comps that’s their job, I’m talking more about guidance.
As Rabbit said they’re are a lot of leaner shops who have downsized who are pulling this crap, mostly out of desperation.
Almost as if giving people of certain genders an advantage wasn't the best idea...
No where anywhere did anyone on these posts mention the gender of the analysts, associates, vps, or MDs lol
Analysts complain about associate not doing work. Analysts then wants time off when associates are impacted by overwork. This summer they’ll complain when bonus gets whacked too. They’ll also continue to complain about lack of gym hours and gaining weight but also complain about how Seamless allowance isn’t enough (then why are you fat)
Because some associates and VPs are the laziest people ever. They finally have someone below them so they think they’re top dog. On the other hand some associates and VPs carry hard. Very person dependent.
Sir, this is the safe space for bitching. Birds perched on higher lines look down and see piles of shit. Birds on lower lines look up and see assholes.
B word is bad word.
Agree - unless your associate is a first year MBA associate lol, if so they should be splitting work 50/50 or all the work if a senior analyst is on it.
At every firm I have ever worked at, going back to my very first internship the juniors have complained about the seniors above them. Some of their complains were warranted, some were not. It's just a part of life. It's just a part of the workplace. Deal with it. Complaining about complaining on here isn't any better. You don't need to be liked by the people below you.
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