Negotiating for a 3rd year position - unique situation
Throwaway since this probably would make it too easy to tie me to my real account.
Anyways, I’m a 2nd year analyst at a top MM in a super lean industry team (10 people). It’s been made clear to me for a while now that I have the option to stay for a 3rd year if I wanted to (was easily placed top bucket and group head said if the firmwide bonus bands were higher they would’ve given me more). Given how lean the group is on many projects I am also trusted to act as an associate with lots of meaningful and direct client exposure.
I originally said the only way I would even consider committing to staying a full 3rd is if I either got an early pay bump to associate after 6 mo or was able to never work with the one douchebag senior banker in my group, in addition to flexibility to move offices if needed. Feedback I received was that the 2nd option would definitely be possible, and that the group is ok with the 1st but was not sure if the firm (read: HR/sr. banking mgmt.) would approve it. Relocation also shouldn’t be an issue. Otherwise I was just going to hang around a few more months and help bring the new interns/analysts up to speed before figuring out my life. Recently the only associate in my group announced that he/she is leaving the firm by the end of the year. Staffer talked to me again about a 3rd year and asked if I had given it any more thought, saying that the group really wants me to stay even more than before.
Issue is now I’m less likely to stay since the associate was amazing at his/her job and knew all the ins and outs of how the group/firm functioned. Plus the two other non-1st year analysts are rolling off next summer (for sure will not be staying) and our intern who was a beast declined the return offer. So now I’m not sure how good the incoming first year would be, and the current plan if I stay on is to hire an associate immediately but only hire one new first year to replace the two other analysts who will be leaving. That would leave the junior team members as me, the new associate hire, incoming first year, and the current first year.
I’m in no hurry to leave banking and have yet to do any dedicated recruiting for post-banking positions. Much of this lies w/ a personal situation involving my significant other not knowing where they’re going to grad school yet. But the biggest reason I don’t want to commit to a full 3rd is by the time I do start my 3rd year my SO will know where they are going to be attending. The option to move offices will help alleviate this but likely won’t be in the same city, would just help w/ general proximity. Plus banking kind of sucks sometimes.
So now I’m in a situation where I actually have significant leverage in the negotiation process for a 3rd year, versus your standard take it or leave it. The associate who’s leaving seems to think I can get a fatty signing bonus for agreeing to stay for a 3rd year, like $50k fatty. So how do I approach this? Also, I’m almost wondering if I should ask for a straight promote to associate, skipping A3 all together and possibly having a lower sign on bonus.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks all.
Tl;dr: Significant leverage to negotiate for staying a full 3rd year as an analyst at a top MM, how do I approach this?
+1 for username alone
If they like you so much and there is an associate opening, I'm not sure why it wouldn't be in the firms best interest to promote you directly to associate.
I just don't know if there's a precedent for it. I wonder how it would look for other 3rd years who didn't get an associate promote.
Firms are getting much more active in promoting capable 2nd years directly to associate
I'm not so sure getting the ASO title would be better than that 'sign-on' bonus; I think the ANL title affords you more flexibility. However, you should avoid anything with a clawback given your circumstances...
My suggestion would be you stay until your SO knows what they're doing and you can plan around that, whether that mean relocating with your current firm or recruiting elsewhere. To that end, you should probably at least put some 'feelers' out if you have an idea as to what city you might end up in.
The team structure you're talking about (ie you staying more 'junior' due to the way moves are going) is unfortunate, but is one of those things that can happen any time in banking.
Yeah it's not so much the title, but the associated pay bump that comes with the promote in addition to having some sign on bonus. If anything I would just put Analyst on my resume. But you don't think "direct promote to associate after 2 years" or something would be good on a resume?
The person above noted the analyst title affords more flexibility (I'm assuming he/she means for buyside recruiting) ... I'm not sure if that's true since people would be able to tell (if you make it explicit) that you got an early promote if you push for associate. In that case, they will know how many years of experience you have.
Have you considered looking at other opportunities (Buyside, Corp dev, etc) or are you also holding off on that because of the uncertainty around where your SO is going to grad school?
Given the leverage, and assuming you're sort of holding back on external roles because of the above uncertainty, I'd think about pushing for the associate promote and sign on bonus. That way, you 1) get to put on your resume you got early promote (depending how long you choose to stay there), 2) capture some of that via increased base comp vs. Bonus you may have to give back if you leave, and 3) position yourself to be a peer to the new associate hire - because in the scenario where your firm hires a dud, you won't get stuck being a 3rd year analyst babysitting some jackass and with less junior support.
In a really fucked up scenario, if you are a 3rd year stuck with a shit associate (who the firm may or may not give some time to get up to speed) with one less Jr analyst, you could get stuck with a shit ton of work, but be benchmarked against an inflated level of expectation vs. what they expect from the associate... Which could lead to burnout, resentment, etc. (I'm a bit cynical and maybe your firm won't do that to you, but I'm just assuming shitty scenarios I've seen happen could happen).
Yeah, highly doubt there's any way I'd be able to ask for a huge sign on bonus w/o a clawback. Any tips on how to approach the actual discussion when it comes up?
Frankly, I haven't negotiated bonus and comp in this way before (only when I've moved on to a new role to get an understanding of what the all-in comp would be), so I'm not sure I can provide much on that - hopefully the other WSOers can chime in here.
But for the promotion bit, I would get some time in with senior bankers you're close with, and talk about how you like the team and want to stay (with the option of switching offices - for your SO), but with fewer juniors in an already lean team, and you've been stepping up, you want your title to reflect your responsibilities and efforts. The one thing though, is when your team typically promote an analyst to associate - is it the summer, or Jan/Feb? Do they have a very formal process, or within a top MM is it more just whatever senior bankers want will happen? It's definitely better to have the conversation sooner, so that they know that's what you're gunning for, and can build a case for it leading up to it.
If you think there's a really good chance you'll leave, you won't get the benefit of the fat sign-on anyway... But if you can get Associate, that you can lock in that title and carry that on your resume to a different firm. Plus, you skip a year where they'll have higher expectations and more scrutiny as an Analyst 3, because it's a promotion year. Even if you guys end up hiring a good associate, you'll still be responsible for all the junior work and he/she will still depend on you to get up to speed, and that could be especially hard on you if the new junior analyst(s) are no good.
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