Potentially Transitioning from MM to BB as an Experienced VP
I'm an experienced IB VP (was ~12 months from Director promote but got caught in a RIF). I've spent the entirety of my career in the MM and LMM space (most recently at a HW / Lincoln / RJ level shop). I'm currently in an interview process with a BB coverage group (top 10 league tables) in the same coverage space. What would be the biggest adjustments I'd have to make to be successful at a BB shop? The biggest things I can think of are:
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Working with product teams - My entire career I've done both the industry and product/execution work. Never had to work with a seperate M&A group or ECM/DCM group, what's that like? Who takes responsibility for what?
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Possibly more hours? Kind of tough to tell on that one right now
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Working on different products - I've always been primarily an M&A banker and this would obviously require me to touch more products.
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Client size? I've worked on deals up to ~$2B in EV, but there is obviously going to be more large client work
What else am I missing or not thinking clearly about? I've never really focused on the inner-workings at BB shops since I never thought of working at one. What questions should I be asking during the interview/DD process that are different from the MM space?
Thanks in advance for any help/ideas.
Based on the most helpful WSO content, here are some key adjustments and considerations for transitioning from a Middle Market (MM) to a Bulge Bracket (BB) bank as an experienced VP:
Key Adjustments:
Working with Product Teams:
Hours:
Working on Different Products:
Client Size:
Additional Considerations:
Questions to Ask During the Interview/DD Process:
Team Structure and Dynamics:
Workload and Hours:
Product Exposure:
Client Interaction:
Career Progression:
By addressing these points, you can better prepare for the transition and set yourself up for success at a BB bank.
Sources: Q&A 2.0: 3rd Year BA/A/AC At MBB Going To UMM/MF This Summer, Non-target/diversity > MM SA > BB FT > MF PE, A Non-Target's Perspective - My MM PE Recruiting Process, Never mind the hours, how do people stand the type of work in banking?, Do "no-name" boutiques really open doors to MMs and BBs?
bump
Bump, good luck in the process man.
Moved to a BB from a LMM shop, have thoughts that I can provide later even though I’m still an Asc. Reply/follow up if I don’t respond in a couple of days
edit: my response below
Mind if I send you a dm? Looking to make a similar move
Would try and post it here for the benefit of the group
Firstly, sorry to hear about the RIF. Hopefully it isnt performance related, but even if it was I'm sure you'll recruit fine as you can spin a story. I've been in that position before and can sympathize.
I think your 4 questions / points are valid. To respond inline...
Perks of being in the coverage group are obvious. And each bank handles who holds pen on the model differently. It can be quite a headache chasing other teams for their slides you might need in a larger, cross division book.
For instance, you may need certain ECM pages (of which there may be multiple verticals e.g. follow on teams vs structure products teams like PIPEs) or DCM to give you debt breakpoints / the banks view on XYZ (might be a dedicated team that handles revolvers vs LT debt issuances vs other debt items.
Or if you have a dedicated Macro team, finding and chasing down the Jrs. that have the latest rates slides or 12 month economy outlook.
Really varies on the clients you're given. I'd imagine as a VP you wont have the Tier 1 clients since those will already be staffed up. Not quite sure how this works at the VP level and how soon you're expected to generate client touch points, especially since youre near Director.
This was something I was looking forward to learning; exposure to debt teams and having that lens to look through when making a firepower deck for a large cap client. Not sure how open you are to learning new things, but this may be a plus for you, or a drawback, in which case I would lean on whatever expertise/niche you picked up at your prior shop.
Touched on this a bit for 2. But you may get put on a "headache" large cap relationship. They're a ton of work since the bank obviously wants to please and will throw however many bodies it takes to get the next deal.
One plus of this is the "buyside" mentality. Unless you're at CVP doing biotech sell sides, you're probably going to be thinking strategically, from the client's viewpoint. This imo is much more interesting than just doing a vanilla SS where youre running a process and managing outreach. Fees are lower on the buyside, but it's more intellectual in my view.
One point that you didnt touch on is the politics and the need to "make a name for yourself" by cutting through the noise and bloat of less than stellar VPs and Sr bankers. The first 6 months at your new shop will set the tone for how MDs/Partners view you, as well as your Jr team. But you should be more concerned about the former in a Sr. VP role.
Can you talk more about "cutting through noise & bloat"?
Appreciate the thoughtful reply. I've already talked with the MD who leads/is building my potential sub-vertical and I think we've got a decent rapport. He was pretty clear that my goal in the early going would be to a) prove my ability to execute (basically just get stuff done) which I have full confidence in and b) develop quality relationships across the other groups - both industry and product - to foster collaboration. I'm just wondering a bit about protocol on the second item - for instance, if I need something from the M&A group do I go to my VP counterpart in that group? Or do I not bother him and go direct to the juniors? I know this is very nitty-gritty stuff, it just would all be new to me.
The idea of doing a lot more true "strategic" work and using that type of thinking more is very appealing to me. I'm just wondering how that translates into the day-to-day? One of the things I've enjoyed about the MM is the lack of "wasted" energy on deliverables that never see the light of day. When I pitch an MM client, the client has already decided they need to do something and we're evaluating and advising on what that something is and how to get it done. My understanding (rightly or wrongly) is that BBs tend to do a lot more idea creation work - essentially pitching to try to create a deal by getting the client interested in an idea, rather than just pitching to win a mandate. Is that kind of work as frequent as I'm thinking or is it overblown?
I am another VP interested in lateralling right now. How did you get the interviews? Was it applying in online resume drops or networking (cold emailing) or otherwise? Just wondering if my strategy should change from when I was a junior banker.
I've never had much luck with online resume drops. I've always thought it was because I lacked brand-names on my resume. In terms of this one it was kind of funny. I saw a posting for it on LinkedIn and I immediately did the resume drop but I also reached out to the HR person who was attached to the posting on LinkedIn. The next day I got a message from a separate HR person who I had a relationship with from her time as a recruiter. The second person knew I had experience in the coverage industry and lived in the city they wanted the person to sit in (not NYC). I told the second HR person that I had already reached out to the first HR person and then the first HR person was the one that scheduled me for the initial screen and the interviews with the bankers. I'm fairly confident I would've gotten the interview without my relationship with the second HR person, but it certainly didn't hurt the situation and probably accelerated things somewhat.
Thanks for the insight. I've always wondered how people our level and above are lateralling. I doubt they are cold emailing people lol. It seems like most of them use headhunters or warm connects.
Congrats on getting the interview man. I'm in your shoes on the LevFin side and have had zero luck getting BB interviews for the exact same role and near identical skill set. It's tough out there..
It’s definitely tough, though the last month seems to have generated a lot more activity, at least on the M&A side. Hopefully it’s similar for LevFin.
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