PSA to All
Edit:
Changing to post to highlight the recent Jefferies loss. Utterly horrible and a sad day for banking, something needs to change and no matter what the potential rewards are (6-fig bonuses, premium exit ops, etc.) your life is invaluable and worth way more.
The shitty group heads, psycho MD's, Directors and promotion-thirsty VP's who are driving these god awful work conditions, false-deadlines and unnecessary sacrifices need to be held accountable.
Prayers to this victim as well as their families - to any current bankers dealing with similar conditions, it simply is not worth it. Prioritize your heath and wellness over everything.
Based on the most helpful WSO content, your PSA aligns with some recurring themes discussed in the forums. Here are a few additional insights that might complement your points:
Perspective on Tough Jobs: Many threads emphasize that the first few years in high finance are grueling but serve as a stepping stone to better opportunities. As highlighted in the "Advice for New Analysts Seeking PE Exits" thread, enduring the grind can lead to significant career advancements.
Self-Reflection and Action: Posts like "Watching others leave early is demoralizing" stress the importance of taking control of your situation. If you're unhappy, polish your CV, network, and explore other opportunities rather than staying stagnant.
Value of Experience: As noted in "Should I negotiate my offer?", the skills and deal experience gained in these roles are invaluable for future career moves, even if the initial years feel unrewarding.
Mental Health and Balance: While it's important to acknowledge the privilege of being in these roles, threads like "1st Year Analysts Quitting?" and "Vent Some Wisdom to Incoming Analysts/Interns" remind us not to sacrifice mental health and personal relationships for the job. Finding balance and leveraging resources can make the experience more manageable.
Your message is a solid reminder, but blending empathy with tough love might resonate more effectively with those struggling.
Sources: 1st Year Analysts Quitting?, Vent Some Wisdom to Incoming Analysts/Interns, 1st Year Analysts Quitting?, Should I negotiate my offer? (1st Year Analyst), A2A - what has been your experience ?
Eh, when you break it down in an hourly basis, we're not making all that much. I see the right to complain as part of my comp package. Kidding but not.
Gotta add real value then. Not saying you don’t but when I feel like this I just try to do better. Now, this could mean starting a business.
How about you guys start thinking about the shareholders instead of yourselves for once?
Where do you work that you haven't complained? Probably some regional boutique because anyone who's ever worked 100+ hr weeks consistently gets the right to complain at any pay. Touch grass, hardo
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-28/jefferies-28-year-ol…
Yeah guys I signed up to die. Totally optional btw
This is gonna get a lot of Monkey shits but…
(And this may not apply to this specific case as cause of death is unknown, although it definitely applies to others)
Since everyone else is going to come here to shit on senior bankers…
Some of the problem is actually on the individual to know that they cannot run on less than 3-4 hours of sleep for X number of days in a row - and!!, that supplementing your lack of energy with seemingly endless amounts of caffeine and sugar packed beverages is a bad idea!!!
I’ve never heard of one of these case where the person drank tea - always monsters, Red Bull, bang, espressos, Celsius and whatever else is horrible for you
If you are a junior person that is worried for your health because you have been working so many hours and sacrificing extensive amounts of sleep - RAISE YOUR HAND - and say “I’m so sorry [Senior Banker] but I don’t feel good and think a night of sleep, at least 7/8 hours, will make me feel better and better contribute to the team long term.”
Sometimes the demands can be brutal but if your boss knows you are running on sub 3-4 hours of sleep multiple nights in a row and you say something - I honestly believe they will say “okay, I understand” and push back on either their boss or even the client”
The answer for these problems is not ALWAYS “Senior Banker bad and greedy” - although I acknowledge that is certainly part of the problem.
A couple of hardos that literally work themselves to death is gonna force all us to use time cards and divide our bonuses in half. It’s not the MDs fault if you give no indication you are working that much, have 25 hours of work a week for 5 separate bosses and none of them know - say something!
To the person working that much, not sleeping and chugging energy drinks - communicate, go to bed, and invite whatever consequences you think will happen if you don’t risk your life for a deal
I can guarantee you, if someone were to do this 8/10 times this would somehow get brought up during a performance review leading to the associate/analyst getting put on PIP. MD's/mgmt would see this as a sign of being soft (not saying its right, 100% not at all). We had this same discussion when Leo passed away and nothing materially changed. Banking is soon gonna be more deadly than cancer.
Totally disagree - senior bankers know who the bad performers are outside of a function of how many hours you work. That is just one input. People getting put on PIPs, especially at soft ass BBs today, are 99% of the time not qualified to do the job, no matter how many hours they work.
I do not believe there is a scenario where person A worked 80 hours in 4 days and person B worked 74 hours in 4 days, and senior bankers are able to attribute the variance in their compensation to that week of work.
Also that scenario should be infrequent! If you need to work 100+ hours every week to be good at this job it probably isn’t for you.
There is are an infinite number of ways to efficiently work 85 hours a week, bust to 100+ when needed, then relax, without killing yourself. Bankers, layers, surgeons have been doing it for decades.
Speak up, stop chugging energy drinks, go to bed and see what happens. Your bonus will be fine.
Former VP - you are 100% correct
Yeah totally agree - not going to victim blame here but too many people are simply afraid to look bad in comparison to their peers. This creates many stupid outcomes (i.e. staying at ur desk for hours on end at night doing nothing, taking on more than you can handle, being afraid to push back, etc.) that are pretty avoidable. At the end of the day you control your destiny - although when u have shitty seniors who don't care about your quality of life, it makes this a lot more challenging.
Would love to know where saying "i'd like 7/8 hours of sleep" actually works
I've had colleagues who ended up going to the hospital after their senior denied them more rest time after they were getting physically sick
If you have been grinding till 3-4am and getting in by 8 multiple days in a row and your senior sees it. Asking for some sleep will work and have no consequences. People with this fact pattern that still feel like they faced consequences - its not because of the sleep, its for something else.
Despite what I’m about to write below, I absolutely feel the responsibility to ensure reasonable working conditions rests on the MDs and flows downward. While I believe analysts can and should take actions (see below) to protect their health, ultimately I think expectations and conditions are so extreme that it is quite difficult for them to do so.
I recognize it is a lot easier said than done, but you don’t need to ask for permission to go home and go to sleep. From my (admittedly dated) experience and those I know who are still current analysts, the seniors are mostly all asleep or at home by midnight. I believe what the poster above is suggesting is that, if you’re feeling unwell or your health is at risk, you should go to sleep. Obviously you’ll need to explain why you didn’t finish the work when you wake up in the morning, but this is unlikely to result in a termination 99% of the time.
The typical rationale as to why people don’t do this is because they are afraid of getting ranked bottom bucket (lower bonus) or feel it will hurt their outplacement prospects. A few thoughts here:
1) Yes, members of your team may get angry at you doing this and put it in your review. Your bonus may be affected. However, you’ll find that the $25k pre-tax difference between top bucket and middle bucket ends up being incredibly insignificant just a few years into your career. Fast forward just five years where you’re a VP making $500k+ and you’ll wonder how you ever considered $20k a lot of money.
2) I don’t see a whole lot of correlation between exit ops and buckets. Heck, most PE recruiting is done before you even complete your first year as an analyst so the PE firms won’t know. Furthermore, everybody lies about their performance in interviews and then manages to find one associate or MD who is willing to go to bat for them and say they are good. What matters for exit ops is actually the quality of your interviewing and your ability to do the job (as demonstrated in interviews), not your ranking (also note … yes bank and group matter a LOT … i mean what matters in the factors you control once you start work).
Didn’t mean to ramble on here but I do want to encourage anyone who feels their health is at risk to go home and sleep. It will have a negligible impact on your career even if you get a ‘talking to’ from your team.
Yes this works but only if you are a female junior.
This is going to be unpopular to say out loud but it's correct. Maybe a bit easier for me since I was in the military prior to banking so may be more prone to telling people to fuck off, but there are times you have to stand up for yourself.
What are they going to do? Fire me? I'll survive.
Ignore my title, left banking as a VP. Absolutely not - if you say you’re on 3 hours of sleep multiple days in a row they will say it is because you are inefficient. I would encourage people to raise their hands in this circumstance but I can tell you there is NO WAY the average MD is pushing back on a client.
For the people confused why the comments don't match the post, this guy was saying everybody complaining about the hrs in banking should quit whining and be grateful for the opportunity, he has now completely 180'd after JEFF killed an associate (RH completely silent on his IG btw). Lol just lol
I viewed his story today to let him know what’s up. This will not be taken lightly.
Yeah my b - wasn't great timing on my end
Is it like this even at Goldman sachs or RBC ? No one has ever died there so really only stray away from JEF & BofA
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/goldman-sachs-analyst…
Holy smokes
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