Would you take RBC over Deustche, UBS right now, assuming same location (group really depends so maybe just say the specifics in your answer)
-Deustche: is a mess rn but still a BB -UBS: just lost Andrea Orcel, more wealth management than IB, still a very strong brand -RBC: focus on building IB practice, culture seems to be more conservative so less likely to end up a mess (like Deustche) but not a BB (yet) so weaker brand name
Feel free to add more info / correct me if something I said is misinfo. Itd be nice if you can name the strong groups at each bank, for example I heard UBS is strong in Industrials, while RBC has very good Tech and M&A.
Speaking of Andrea Orcel, anyone has some thoughts regarding whether Banco Santander will become more competitive within M&A and increase their tier rank?
When did they become an investment bank? I had to google that up, genuinely thought they were pure retail
Assuming not a career banker, would rank: UBS, RBC, Deutsche. Even though RBC is on it's way up, it'll take time to get the same name recognition as UBS outside the banking bubble
Santander will not compete in the Investment Banking landscape. Orcel is focusing on improving their Retail Banking capabilities. As for UBS, although they lost Orcel, they’re considering Ex-Head of IB from BAML, Christian Meissner, as the new CEO of entire organization. With Meissner leaving BAML due to the bank have too strict of risk guidelines when it came IB activities, I think you’ll see UBS become much more aggressive and shift their main focus back to IB.
He's not yet CEO. The UBS (co-?)Head(s) of PWM are also in a very strong position. UBS is a PWM powerhouse, where its IB business is tiny in comparison. Operating Profit of CHF931m for PWM vs CHF472m for IB for their last quarter. Given the currently very high M&A activity this might decrease to 'normal' levels where PWM is roughly 3x IB.
I said they’re “considering” him for CEO. Not he is CEO.
PWM is in an interesting place. Great demographic tailwinds, but tremendous competition is driving reduction in pricing power and margins.
DB is not a BB
you mean not anymore?
I'd stay away from DB, banking is all about people, and while they still have some (ie a handful of) good senior bankers there generating deals, the continuing shitshow of bad press and Headco issues will mean they could jump ship anytime in the next 12M (or even 3M) if they don't get what they want (guaranteed bonus, promo/titles, etc etc).
Between UBS and RBC, I'd say it depends what your plan is. UBS is ahead of RBC in terms of ranking, deal flow, prestige etc. but I think I'd personally pick RBC given their growth trajectory and - from what I heard - they're a lot more flexible in terms of structure & incentives to keep their top performers from jumping to BBs (faster promos for example). But that's only from my perspective as a 3rd yr assoc where LT progression matters. If your plan is a 1-2yr An stint in banking then move to PE, UBS might offer better deals flow/exit opps, etc. for all I know.
I agree with what others have posted, but I have heard differently on the UBS front.. Heard they’ve been laying people off in certain IB groups in the NY office. Most happened in Q4 too which is just terrible. Heard there was almost no healthcare deal flow last year (which is surprising) and that team lost almost all of their senior members accordingly, both by choice and some pushed out. Also heard they basically dissolved the natural resources group - some were sent into other teams, but a good portion were laid off. Some were junior/mid-level employees as well. The LF team also apparently had a bunch of reshuffling, including layoffs that affected Associates through MD. Couple these rumors with Andrea Orcel leaving (who spearheaded the “revised strategy”) and I would say you should be a bit more skeptical about UBS, or at least do some more digging, before deciding to go there right now in the IB. Seems messy. Almost reminiscent of the path they went down in 2011/2012..
UBS- has had a lot of talented bankers depart over the last several years and even more so over the last 12 months. They have backed fill a lot of their seats with a flood of Deutsche Bankers. I feel there is a always a cloud of "Will UBS finally ditch IB altogether?" hanging overhead.
DB - There are still some very productive pockets inside the firm HC/RE but as mentioned above, they are constantly in the news for one negative reason or another.
RBC - A lot of top UBS bankers have been recruited to RBC. They are much healthier and with a better growth trajectory.
As always it depends on the groups you want, but despite the headlines, I would still barely put DB ahead of RBC and UBS. DB was the sole buyside advisor for Eli Lilly's acquisition of Loxo (~$8bn deal announced this month) and as previous posters have mentioned they still have a few senior bankers who are very strong. RBC does have a good Energy practice and I would agree that they are moving in the right direction, so that's something to consider. I would rank DB, RBC, then UBS.
Will agree with you that RBC is strong in the energy space, but I would argue it’s due to their balance sheet capabilities. DB shutdown their Houston office last May, consequentially dissolving their energy presence all together. UBS lost a lot of energy bankers in Q1/Q2 2018 I believe, but they’re still headed by Langford, which continues to attract talent. They recently picked up a Citi director, Deutsche MD, and I want to say CS MD
RBC > DB = UBS. UBS has so troubles recruiting on all fronts from analysts (yes!) to MDs. Almost ALL group heads have left the past year and like previous posts said, a lot of top bankers went to RBC. They did replace with a bunch of low performing DB bankers lol
Heard they can't even fill the summer associate class this year and ended up with super non target MBA folks (non top 25)
would love to have more insights so bump
If you want PE, take DB or UBS. - As BBs, DB and UBS still have superior brand reputation for buy-side exits - DB may be preferable to UBS, but ultimately this depends on which team you join
If you want to stay in banking, take RBC. - As others have said, RBC has more stability and a better long-term growth trajectory. If you join as an analyst you will have the opportunity to grow with the firm.
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