Thoughts now that we’re getting close to end of internships?
Hey everyone, now that most of us SAs have 2/3 weeks left in our summer internships, what is everyone thinking? Do you think you’ll be asked to come back or do you even want to come back if asked? Was the internship what you expected it would be? Just really any reflections tbh.
Personally, I had a better time than I thought I would. I’m at an MM and got to work on stuff and submit deliverables that made it in front of clients, rather than doing menial internal shit all summer (though that still needed to be done as well). While I feel pretty confident that I’ll get a return offer and I would want to come back to my group, I’m also pretty fucking tired lol. So as I sit here procrastinating on a Sunday, instead of doing work like I should be, I wanted to see what everyone else’s thoughts were.
I don't want to come back. I don't want to work every weekend and past midnight. I have no complaints about the people or company, but this job just isn't for me. I'd like an offer but I don't think I would accept.
Same spot, my team and culture is amazing, just that this job isn’t for me.
1) I wanna be able to WFH
2) I don’t want to stay up late every night
3) I’d like to do real work instead of aligning PowerPoints and creating excel graphs
I was told I’d be getting a return offer, don’t think I’m gonna accept it.
It pisses me off so much that banks won’t let people wfh. First of all, I don’t give a shit about in person mentorship and camaraderie and all the other boomer excuses why we have to be in office. This job can be done as efficiently, if not more, at home. Morale would certainly improve. Also the commute is just so trash. Spending 30 mins on a hot subway then waiting 15 min for an Uber and wasting hours of a day is just so demoralizing. I get banking is all about inefficient processes but damn.
Such a weenie. Banking is just not for you lmao. Go work in tech if you rlly want the wfh, jerking off alone type of shit
The commute thing is about being an adult. This is what adults do. It's not just because that's what others have had to do. It's because that's how the company wants to operate. They don't exist to appease you, it's quite the other way around. This may be the first time in your life you've had to deal with that (or not).
Re - the not caring about mentoring, camaraderie, etc. Again, this isn't about you. THEY want to see you in the office. THEY want to know if you're the right rock for THEM to invest in. THEY want to see if they can picture a future leadership / client facing role with you. Otherwise, you are a meaningless cog in their wheel and not a good fit for either of you.
Sorry to be so blunt but this is reality. As a senior person, I would have zero interest in hiring someone who didn't want to be an active part of the team. If the team is in the office, so are you,..or you're not part of the team.
Wonder when the lawsuits will start re X not getting promoted or being treated differently when they were WFH!
I mean on the one hand this job blows but on the other hand I’m not creative to figure something else to do this late
I'm out. I cannot do this for two years. Banks have such antiquated views on WFH and culture in general and it's just not for me. Call me a pussy or whatever else you want, but honestly the pay is simply just not good enough for what you have to sacrifice. I don't want to be fat, depressed, and lose touch with close relationships. Also hate the fact that I will have to move to NYC and commute 5 days a week when seniors are rarely in office. I'm starting to look at fully remote or at least flexible roles for when I graduate. Best of luck to all of you sticking it out though. I guess its better that some of us figured out this isn't the right path now rather than later.
There are opportunities in Houston, Charlotte, elsewhere than NYC
Banking is a people business. The actual analytics, Evalueserve is doing more and more of that these days, so work from home will soon be work from India EXCEPT for the people skills, which sure there are occasions you can work from home but in my opinion, you can't really have teamwork and client relations without face to face. You're welcome to disagree - I just have never seen this work effectively
I honestly really enjoyed my experience and found the work to be more interesting than I thought I would. I understand how the hours can get old after a while but to me doing this for at least two years is a no brainer considering the doors it opens. Also really enjoy living in NYC
some of these responses are concerning.
I wonder, for those of you saying this isn't worth it, have you had a professional internship prior this one? What are your salary expectations? Have you considered that many jobs outside of IB pay MAYBE half the comp?
Yes, IB is tough and demanding - sacrifices will be made. But be careful to consider the alternative. 80 hours a week making 150-200k as a 21 year old, with a sharp career trajectory, or 40 hours a week for 60k, with a much less impressive earnings trajectory.
Yes, there are other alternatives to IB that pay well, but they are very few and far between. In 5 years, the two paths could be 1. 250-350k comp on 70 hours a week 2. 80k comp on 45 hours. Dont even get me started on 5 more years after that.
I know I'm biased, but I don't want you guys regretting the loss of a real opportunity
Most corp fin guys I know work IB hours
“A real opportunity” lol. Yeah sure, but for me the comp is just not worth it. Yeah it’s great money, but it’s not fuck you rich,and you have to do it for multiple years to have it actually be material. To me, it’s not worth my 20s slaving away in a city I don’t really like just to be an “investment banker”. The world is a different place now man. People wfh and have way more flexibility. I’d gladly sacrifice comp to have more freedom. Just my thought. Banking isn’t for me.
Have you tried WFH before? If so, for how long?
Many people that have done it for over 6 months will tell you its excruciatingly unsatisfying, inefficient, and leads to the decaying of ones entire skillset. I'm not saying you should never WFH, but it is not nearly as good as it sounds to someone accepting a job offer. Your home becomes your office, in all the wrong ways. Just imagine having kids,pets, etc., and an MD is breathing down your neck over the phone demanding turns immediately.
Yes, NYC blows. Get out of there. Take a job there, work 6 months, and move to a somewhat smaller, cheaper city thats been discussed on this forum before (Charlotte, Houston, Atlanta).
Freedom...sacrifice money to have more freedom you say....my advice is, and you dont need to take it, money is freedom, especially now when the economy is on a dark path.
Also interning at a BB IB. I think 95% of the seniors I talked to are losers. Seeing people over the age of 25 and not leaving the office until midnight makes me lose all respect for them. Am also not accepting the return offer. Thinking of going HF. IB as a whole is on a downward trend and will be seen just slightly above Big 4 accounting in ten years—that’s my view
Finding out what you don't want to do is as important as finding out what you do. All the posters who criticize you guys for "oh didn't you know the hours were going to be bad" or "there's a reason you get paid so much" make me doubt if they every did an analyst stint in IB themselves.
Talking the talk and walking the walk are too very different things, and I respect that you guys can admit to yourselves that you're not "that guy" and are brave enough to look for something that will make you happy. Good luck.
Very interesting seeing the transition of working attitudes in the newer generation. It's been brewing for some time but I feel like we're at an inception point now where banks are going to have change massively in terms of culture to keep attracting new talent. I see absolutely nothing wrong with graduates wanting more WLB and not choosing banking, good for you guys. Hopefully, means that those of us in the industry will start getting compensated even higher as banks try and retain talent lmao
Find a banking job (or some other role for that matter) where you can work hybrid. Hybrid work is truly the best of both worlds, been doing it for a year now and I feel like I get all the benefits of being in office (made a lot of friends, office camaraderie, learning things is easier in person, etc.) but I still get to wfh twice a week and get a way more relaxed schedule, plus I can sleep in on those days.
In general I think fully remote and fully in office both kind of suck. You’re sacrificing a lot either way.
I'm seeing the new crop of energetic youthful interns and honestly, they have no idea what they are getting themselves into. I want to grab them all and tell them to NOT DO IT. I have seen IB change so many people in shells of themselves who have had to quit to just decompress and mentally recover.
What's worse, is that all the "target" school kids I think know the deal. We can barely get them to come interview now. Most our interns this summer are from random state schools and they SO BADLY want to BREAK IN. I don't blame them; if you are the kid from university of Iowa that breaks into a BB top group, it must feel like you are conquering the world. Unfortunately, you are just joining a dying industry that's resistant to change, stagnant on pay, and light years worse culture wise than tech (with lower pay). It will take a few years for all these non target kids to get it - then the real recruiting pain starts.
I thought COVID would revolutionize banking work like balance, but we are back to normal at my BB. It's like it never happened.
And yes, actively interviewing to leave the industry.
How the fuck is banking a dying industry bro cmon
Really?
-Pay not as high as pre 2008 (not even adjusting for inflation...dollar to dollar!)
-All press negative about culture - stuff like "this is worse than foster care" hitting the WSJ about GS (compare this to top tech companies with amazing perks, free everything, and not working past 8pm on the reg)
-horrible retention / super hot lateral market because everyone is leaving the industry
-recruiting interest at target schools is noticeably lacking. In the 1980s, 90s, and early 2000's HBS MBA grads were going into IB by the droves. Now....you are made fun of for going IB. It's all Notre Dame, Cornell, and Georgetown for MBA recruiting these days feels like (if even that high..). Don't believe me, go ask top students at Yale, Harvard, Princeton how excited they are at joining IB. You'd get a much different answer than even 10 years ago.
-MD pay is WAAAY down (already noted above but merits mentioning again). Being an MD in IB used to be a big deal. Now most barely clear 1 million and there's a ton of deferred comp. With housing prices, tuition costs, and overall inflation, the dreams of being an MD and buying a hamptons home are gone. Making MD now is basically a "welcome to being able to finally buy a tiny 3 bedroom apartment in UWS and having to save for retirement like everyone else" type promotion. Seriously, go ask your new MDs where they live and what cars they drive (not that impressive).
With NY state tax, nyc income tax, the stock deferments on bonuses, I seriously doubt on an all cash basis an MD makes over 500k a year net taxes. Add in their insane housing costs for a seriously average 3 bed in UWS, private school for 2-3 kids (since public schools blow here), they absolutely have to grind a decade plus to even think of retiring. And if they don't bring in deals they are CANNED (horrible job security). Thus they likely more frugal than you think in case they get fired.
Not saying they aren't doing well, but I'd liken it to being an average dentist or something in Ohio (and the dentist has WAY more job security and autonomy).
I could go on and on. It's dying.
Currently writing this right now as I wait for my Uber leaving the office at 1:30am at a BB regional office. While I’m grateful that I got a solid brand name under my resume, I don’t think I’ll be returning here because of pretty toxic and brutal culture. Maybe I would’ve stayed in banking if I was in a better group culturally but I also realized I was only doing IB because all my other high achieving peers were doing it. I learned a lot of valuable life lessons this summer though which was nice.
I’m pretty dissatisfied with my experience but would’ve done it all over again. It really taught me what I should really value in life. Thought for the longest I would value money, career advancement etc but it simply isn’t worth the physical and especially mental toll this job has taken on me. Gotta be honest with myself if I can’t even stand the internship, no way in hell I would make it through ft. I also have no interest in PE/HF/VC so I don’t see a point of me staying in IB. While it’s kinda scary to recruit again, I would rather much take my chances than return to this group (yea it’s that bad lol)
Anyways, the next hardo can take my spot haha. I still want to stay somewhere in finance though just not in IB. Don’t mind taking a pay cut since I’ll graduate with no debt / obligations. For everyone deciding to stay, good luck and hope you guys make it through the other end!