VP Banker tentative about new sweatshop hours

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I personally wouldn't make the move. You have been coasting at an easier gig for far too long and you don't realize how difficult it will be on you physically and mentally to make the leap. Enjoy decent comp with career progression potential and a great WLB.

I was in your shoes and took the leap. Although things have generally worked out, it was a grind for a while and there are plenty of days I wish I hadn't.

You’ve got to weight higher pay versus higher probability of making MD. Longevity is almost invariably worth more in this industry. Longevity comes from not being ground into dust.

The extra cash comp is a a high marginal tax rate...plus what you gonna do with the extra cash when you're grinding? Is there a path to less hours as you move up? If you're in a city where you basically can't afford a decent house at 350, crazy as it sounds, I can see wanting to get that extra money. But sounds brutal, esp coming from 40 hours weeks. I'm inclined to think its not worth it. 

I would echo staying on through your promotion to Director and then making the jump to a bank where you can envision both higher pay and a visible path to MD promote.

If you are apprehensive about this because of the money you're leaving on the table, remember how variable comp is in this industry.  You could get hired at the new place, get crushed for a year, hate your life, then get laid off or a shitty bonus if the group's / firm's deal flow declines.  And as the new VP unless you're a star performer (i.e. working harder than the others at the same crushing hours) you'll likely be at the top of the chopping block list.

I wouldn't leave. Think you need to weigh up what the money will bring vs. the loss of free time. There's a huge difference between 40 and 80 hours a week, I'm sure you're well aware of this from your junior years. Grinding 80 hours a week in your early 30s is shit, there's no other way to put it. I don't see what the additional money brings unless you plan to retire early, you need to be frugal to achieve this and not extend your lifestyle with the new comp. If this is one of the reasons you want to make the move, you need to be very comfortable you wont increase your outgoings.

Plenty of juniors on here will say you can grind out your 20s / 30s because you'll make shitloads of money, but you really are trading your most free years (I wont say best) in return for money. Once you hit your 40s, you don't have the same energy, your body doesn't recover as quickly. and most of your friends are juggling trying to raise a family and manage their career. Earning $350K and working a standard 9-5 type hours in your 30s really is a near golden balance of having a lot of disposable income and being able to enjoy it.

Offer rejected. Thanks everyone for your helpful input

I'm just a little bitch ass Associate who doesn't know shit about shit, but if the reasons you site for wanting to jump are prestige and fear of perceived stagnation I just think that's a classic mistake on a human level. Don't be the mid-life crisis guy who realizes his life is too easy so he goes and does a bunch of shit to bring more chaos into it just because he's bored.

Fuck prestige. You want to get paid in dollars not clout tokens. Prestige isn't going to pay your rent. Prestige isn't going to help you sleep at night. 350k for 40 hours a week coasting seems like the dream land for me. Even if I never got more money than that, I would be happy. That comp is solid enough for me for a 40 hour work week. And you also have the possibility to move up to 600k at this place? Why the fuck would you ever leave? Leave the prestige circle jerk shit at the door. That will never make you happy. Time is most valuable commodity you have on this planet

Feels like you answered your own question in your original statement. If you have so many tailwinds in your current role and you're most importantly happy, why would you switch to a role which would take away the time which makes you feel good? If there is a career track for you at your current shop and you can live with the 600/700k happily, why move to a role which will rip all of your lifestyle away? Unless your goal is to become a rockstar mogul banker while sacrificing everything which made you happy in your current role, there's no need to chase the prestige. I get the money is better and that is certainly an enormous factor, but make sure you balance your reasoning for wanting to switch by separating the comp and your thirst for prestige with the real-life trade-off which would take place if you actually made the jump. 

And btw I'm not saying there is a right answer here but I am just encouraging you to think about the implications long-term of your decision to give up what is currently a satisfying, well-paying role which can offer you both a long-term career and monetary satisfaction (to the extent to you see your earnings potential as sufficient for yourself).

So I did something similar when I was an senior Associate. I lateraled to a very well known and successful BB that wasn't a sweat shop, but it had tough hours (at least for Analysts to Associates). A few things I think that are worth mentioning:

"Visiblity in Promotions"

When I was hired as a senior Associate, I was told there was lots of room to grow. There were not many mid-level bankers (VP/D) above me and that there was high visibility to promotions. What I quickly learned once I was on the inside was that there was a reason for this. None of them saw a path to MD because none of the MDs were leaving. Also for every bank, but especially a BB, there are fee minimums (your deals have to be at least a certain size) and all the companies that would be likely to pay those fees (multi-billion market cap cos) are already heavily banked at our bank and in the industry as a whole.

Quick story: my BB was pushing the VPs (after I got promoted) to start originating business. None of us were successful. One of my colleagues originated a piece of business that was for a $200M market cap co. It was a touch under my bank's floor for fees. The business was also highly disruptive and a competitor to some of our behemoth client names so the engagement committee politely told him to F off. He was the closest to actually getting a deal signed as a sole lead. We didn't stand a chance. With only one exception, every single VP/D quit or was RIF'd and did not make MD in at least five years. There was no "apprenticeship model" because MDs were not handing down relationships and retiring/leaving/moving on.

More than Just Tough Hours

My G/F at the time (now wife) was also a former banker discussed it with me before I accepted the offer. We were both concerned about what this would do to our relationship. A few things she called (and was right on): you'll be the new guy at the firm. You'll start with the shit staffings and work with the shit people (senior and junior). If you REALLY want to succeed, you'll have to work harder than anyone else. Even if they are good people, they will likely look down on you. You need to kick your own ass to own the spot, prove yourself. Behave like an intern - stay late, help where you can, have a positive attitude. Walk in with the right expectations or don't walk in at all. I knew all of this, but I couldn't help but be attracted to this (like a moth to a flame). Thankfully, my G/F and I are both ambitious and she knew I couldn't help myself. She was incredibly supportive (otherwise I'd be dead).

Deferred Comp

Quick note. My BB paid similar headline values that you seem to have mentioned. Be cautioned, you don't get it all at once. There is a hugh portion which is deferred which is a fancy way to say that the bank is "underpaying you" from a headline value perspective vs. cash. "Roses are red, violets are blue, cash is green, deferred is brown".

Brand and Knowledge

This is the good part. I stayed for a few years, but eventually left. The brand looks amazing on my resume, I have some kick ass transactions on my deal sheet and genuinely my banking knowledge across products and my industry has gotten pretty sharp. I'm now at a MM where our deal size is a joke (we would have loved that $200M business my former colleague found). I've had deals smaller than some past fees. However, the economics at my firm are that we are paid well: all cash and (for more senior roles) a defined % of the deal fee. Also, to make the economics work, we have higher deal volumes that close in months from tip to tail (pitch to close) - keep in mind, BB deals, while sexy - can actually take years to close. I'm paid on the lower end of street, but I leave work every day at 5 and never come in on weekends.

From a knowledge perspective, I'd highly recommended spending sometime at a larger firm if you can. Smaller firms just don't have the same breadth and likely don't have access to products like ECM/DCM. While I thought that ECM/DCM was super boring, spending some time with them really gives you perspective for things like M&A financing. At my MM, almost no one can do an accretion/dilution analysis because we don't need to... but having an understanding of how larger companies (especially strategics) think when they make acquisitions is like a super power in MM. Having worked on some BB buysides is incredibly handy in the MM.

Edit: saw you rejected the offer in a post above. Congrats on a tough decision.

Curious about how things are going a year out since you posted if you’re still active and willing to share. 

jzplayinggames

Going into a highly reputable strong team with long hours, leaning towards taking offer but have some reservations. Lateral move from debt advisory to debt advisory

Currently VP2 in lifestyle group, comping 350 all-in (100% bonus). Work about 40 hours a week. Cushy, but not growing, place where the deal flow is strong, BS work is low, and I have good visibility with senior leadership. Being groomed for a D or ED in near future, we will hire juniors and leave the senior roles for a couple of us VPs to walk into. Cap out around 600/700 in say 5 years time until we start talking MD. Very uncertain exits, but good place to call a career with a lifestyle group

Taking a VP1 role in high performing strong group with sweatshop hours, comping 600 all-in (125% bonus). Will work 70, upwards of 80 hours a week. Deal flow also strong. Good reputation, also likely good visibility with the MDs and SMDs. 4 year track to straight MD, no D or ED. Likely strong exits to a debt fund, way more runway in the mid-term, likely clear 1mm by 4-5 years time.

Frankly, in my early 30s, I'm generally happy with my current comp, just the lack of prestige and the dread of stagnating somewhere bothers me. I still got gas in the tank, and while I'm not going to crush myself like in my 20s with actual sweatshop level hours, doubling my hours is just brutal. Been through the rigor, frankly the body and mind adapts after a month. A year anywhere is doable and exits will be much more bright. 

Still, have some reservations. Fully enjoy getting off at 5pm 6pm and go do whatever the fuck I want. Would love some feedback, especially from being in a more mid level early 30s type situation and how you navigated

Does it honestly change your lifestyle? You can afford to go holidays that are 5* etc now. Sure you can buy more things but you probably won't get the time to use them. 

Your time is more precious I would say. Honestly just my view. It's rare to find chill hours with good pay.

Now that all of OP’s problems are solved, wanted to raise a related question.

Can someone outline these roles that come up occasionally on here, seem to be private credit / debt, which pay $350k + on about 40 hours a week? How does one find these jobs and is it a common or realistic path from IB? Are there qualifications etc. which would help to get attention in hiring?

Thanks in advance.

-Clueless IB associate