The label of EB gets thrown around a lot with many banks who used to be strong (GHL, PWP) now being tentatively considered EBs but was curious if Guggenheim's reputation has risen to take their places? Also curious about recent exits and what people think about them poaching both of Barlays's global heads of industrials last year.
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Good shop.
Genuine question, since the OP alluded to it - is PWP no longer considered strong? If so, how come
pwp is still considered strong, idk what op is on to be honest
In general there is just less visibility on PwP since they are private. It's clear that Evercore, Moelis, and PJT have been on a tear over the last couple years in terms of growth and the types of mandates they are on. Centerview too is private but the caliber of deals they are on is unquestionable.
Greenhill is struggling pretty badly (two quarters this year where they only generated $40M in IB fees, yikes). Just being in the industry my impression of PwP that it is still a good shop but definitely does not seem to have the same momentum as the ones above.
Guggenheim is a good shop and works on some real high quality mandates (especially in TMT). It would be disingenuous to say though that they really have anywhere near the placement as the ones mentioned above (not to say you can't still go buyside as a good candidate). They expanded extremely rapidly and I think that has at times diluted the analyst pool/quality and reps to go around on the top mandates.
Heard from an analyst that dealflow can be all or nothing depending on the group you're in - I personally don't see them as a strong or upward trending eb
Just finished recruiting with them and can say that they're definitely an EB today. Most of the WSO posts about Guggenheim are very outdated. As others have mentioned, they work on top mandates and the exits are good (top MMs and a few MFs, although not on the level of Evercore / PJT) TMT and HC (all three verticals) have solid dealflow, and Industrials as well with them poaching both Barclays' heads. Also heard good things about Retail and P&U (former BX P&U team). Not sure about FIG
PWP is definitely a top shop. Have heard great things
Just my two cents but I have kids at my school(Williams) who leveraged their buy-side gugg SI-FT offers for GS FT
Buy-side Gugg? I imagine that with a Guggenheim return offer, you'd be one of the most qualified lateral candidates
gugg not an EB
Pardon my ignorance, what is ‘EB’? I’ve not heard this term before.
Elite Boutique
...........
They unique relative to other bond funds, whereas other bonds funds are more tactical but Guggenheim actually have been de-risking since ‘18. They’re model is more long-term view and their returns have been consistent. As Bill Gross said, Scott Minerd could surely be the next bond king.
They also had Marcos López de Prado set up their QIS division, and he's one of the most well known quants out there. I heard most of his work there involved systematic credit-related arbitrage (by no means an easy feat) but he must've done well otherwise he wouldn't have been able to move to AQR. I was going to say that having his quant unit as part of them is a plus, but looking it up now apparently they sold it back to him, so I don't know what to make of that.
PWP is small is a small group of senior bankers who generate an enormous amount of revenue per partner. I do not know what that trickles down to at the analyst/associate level, but their restructuring team is very good and has deep contacts and loyalty in the distressed business. Certainly if you stay on in an executive role you will be making well above average comp.
PWP and Guggenheim are both great shops to get your start in, and I would say they are on a very similar level in terms of US dealflow and exits. They could definitely both be placed into the "EB" category, if that's what you want to hear. However, outside of the US that shifts pretty quickly in PWP's favor. Some analysts I've met in Europe have never even heard of Guggenheim, whereas PWP is rapidly expanding (new Paris, German offices), considered a strong EB in London, and on an upward trajectory. Also, don't necessarily know what you mean about PWP declining in strength? It could be because of the Ducera incident that happened a few years ago, but they've been routinely rebuilding the RX business since then.
Agreed. If you're talking internationally
I have two friends at Guggenheim...it has definitely gained enough traction on the street to be called an EB. Obviously not the same exits opps as Evercore/PJT but still strong sending some to MF and others to UMM. TMT and Healthcare verticals are top tier. Other groups are improving as well.
.
That's four of their eight M&A groups since HC is divided into three groups. Would say RX, industrials and retail are strong as well Obviously not Evercore / PJT. Moelis is pretty unpleasant culture-wise, not sure they're gaining these days
Does anyone know the average hours per week and comp for Gugg analysts? Just trying to gauge how it compares with BBs and other EBs
My sense is that Gugg hours are middle of the pack for EBs and they pay at the top.
i'd say on hours it's fairly group dependent, know some of the restructuring guys had it pretty tough this past cycle. i would definitely second the comment on pay.
How do GHL and PWP compare in terms of buyside exit opportunites?
would say Gugg may get more MF exits on an absolute basis but keep in mind its class size is almost 3x the size of both pwp and ghl. i'd say both pwp and ghl both place fairly consistently into MM shops with a slight skew to perella in quality of exits.
TMT and Healthcare are top tier - relative of mine works there and those two areas are hard to beat anywhere on the street. Esp since they have that former Bear guy working the TMT group
Don't think HC would be as strong maybe go-forward? They just lost two senior MDs to SVB Leerink (Barry Blake, Robert Minear) pretty heavy hitters within the team
Believe Pharma and Med Device there run their own teams and had no attrition at all. Also on Services side the remaining team who actually did most of the deals last couple of years are still there. But the overall seat swapping this year is fun to watch across banks
In this current environment where people are getting crushed Gugg might actually be a better option if you don't want to get completely brutalized at MOE/PJT/CVP where the classes are small and you are on 5 different live deals but still get paid top of the street
This comment is super uninformed.
yours truly,
A Gugg Associate who has consistently been getting crushed for entirety of COVID
Have you heard anything about Gugg implementing any protected Saturdays, or anything else that will improve WLB for juniors?
Heard from a friend who works there that they are considering protected Saturdays, but no significant progress has been made.
How happy are you with your choice to go to Gugg? I’m incoming this summer (chose Gugg over other offers) and got the impression during recruiting that it’s a solid spot to be.
I'm pretty happy. Assuming you stay on as an associate at Gugg for 3 years, you will out-earn your peers at BBs by hundreds of thousands of dollars cumulatively over that time period.
Deal flow / experience is mixed depending on the group.
Do you mind sharing if this is across all industry groups? Any particular groups / verticals that are especially bad right now?
Also, are Associates working a little less than Analysts? Or about the same?
Can say for certain that TMT, Healthcare Services, FIG, Industrials are all sweat shops. I'm sure the other groups aren't cakewalks either but can't confirm first-hand.
In terms of associate workload vs. analysts, it's hard to say and depends.
As I suspected based on your description of "crushed" it's honestly light compared to the other EBs I mentioned. I have quite a few friends at Gugg and they basically confirmed the same. Ask your friends at the three shops I mentioned and they are all probably working past 2am if not later on most days of the week. You get to have your cake and eat it too
It's not a competition. We can all hate our lives equally as much.
I'm sure he / she as an associate works less than the analysts
I cannot comment on where Gugg falls, but I will say that I've been surprised by some senior hires that have been made. MDs that existing employers (smaller firms) were not particularly sad to see leave.
Could you clarify this? Are you saying that Gugg has made some senior hires whom their prior employers were not particularly sad to see leave?
Correct
Would assume you're referring to the guys from William Blair?
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