What school did your worst intern/FT go to?
Just curious. Also why can't you post anonymously in off topic? Weird. I saw an interesting thing where people said that if you hire from a non target and the guy is bad, it's like "duh" but from a target they are just a bad apple.
Edit: my intention was not to trash on specific schools, and I should have realized that's how it came off, sorry about that. Was just curious. Myb. Really not trying to incite people being unnecessarily mean :), as one person is not a representation of a school.
Edit: It seems like it's pretty varied, and that schools don't necessarily make the student (and that it doesn’t matter as much as this forum seems to think)
Going to get MSd to oblivion by the Canadian kids. Have done banking across multiple countries, BB/boutique etc. and my worst two were from Queens.
Sincerely, VP | Ivey Business School
Lol. Not to stereotype, but Ivey kids are pretty consistent, as are Laurier kids. I generally know what qualities and level of prep to expect.
Queens has the broadest range, from some absolute rock stars to the worst two I have ever come across in my career. The recruiting team tells me things have changed, but seeing "Limestone" on a resume makes me want to throw up.
lol thats what happens when you're hiring the trustfund kids
Queens does have a reputation for pampered kids but I still find this hard to believe unless you're at a Canadian bank
A second hand tale: I know someone who interned at an EB last summer (EVR/CVP) from my school (an Ivy League school) and he said that the worst intern was actually from Stanford. Dude always turned in subpar deliverables and missed a few deadlines. He didn’t get a return offer to no one’s surprise. And he wasn’t a diversity candidate btw.
The non-target kid from his group attended Tufts and he was fairly decent according to him.
Interned at Evercore M&A a couple years ago and worst kid was from Stanford. Can confirm.
Can confirm as well, I interned at EVR M&A and went to Stanford. Now An1 at FT Partners (140k base btw)
tufts is a great school academically lol. not like he went to ole miss
ole miss is the harvard of the south
Wharton non diversity. The intern clearly didn't want to be there and would rather go to parties / auctions. Still got the return because his father wanted him to get a real job and their family company was a major client. He returned for 2 years and has since went back to manage family business.
Wharton MBA
I've really never been that impressed with the ivy kids. The kid from a decent state school with a chip on their shoulder usually outperforms. There's obviously smart and hardworking people that go to all different types of schools, but I think the ivy admission practices/ "we're better than everyone else" mentality is starting to catch up
Well it worked when we actually were the best, but unfair admissions practices and test optional have led to about 60% of my HYP being retarded. Every class for my major is graded on a curve. Most kids study for a week before each midterm and get B/B-. Every kid I know who is non-div, went to public school, and submitted test scores studies like 1-2 days max and gets an A without fail (not to say other groups don’t do this, but this demographic does it without fail). It’s become laughably easy to get above a 3.5 at HYP (less so P bc grade deflation). I got a 69% on a midterm last year (nice), and it became an A cuz the average was like a 50. Not complaining too much cuz it allows me to go out every night while keeping As/A-, but it does upset me cuz I feel like it devalues the degree, plus I know a ton of way smarter 3.9+ kids at Mich, Berk, Duke, UT Austin that get shit on by said HYP retards struggling to get a 3.5, which truly pisses me off.
A smart state school kid with a chip on their shoulder was kicking HYP ass when I joined banking 15 years ago too.
I believe they mean like they’re disadvantaged so they have to try harder
It kinda means holding a grudge, feeling resentment because you feel you are inadequate
It does not necessarily imply a negative connotation.
This post is lame. Honestly, it’s giving insecurity.
im going to preface this long post by saying this is more meant for discussed upon targets who are experiencing performance ramp due to not coming from a finance ugrad study. Honestly only motivated to make such a long post because I really do empathize with these kids.
While it’s no doubt targets have a lower barrier to entry into IB and certainly are advantages in recruiting, it’s obviously a self fulfilling prophecy you’ll get kids in this demographic who are from non-finance backgrounds/have a greater ramp to achieve. That being said anecdotally from my SA/now AN class @ an EB, while some targets from non-finance backgrounds did experience initial struggle, most are able (and do) to sort themselves out through training and a learning prospective to be on par or better than the average. There’s reason why even the upper mgmt of IB is also target heavy.. IB isn’t rocket science. Honestly, at the junior level there isn’t much that you will struggle to catch up on given you are making efforts to take training seriously for your learning benefit. I would argue this is especially true if you are coming from a disciplined academic background (assuming most targets had some sort of academic merit to get into/sustain at their top target, given they’ve landed IB easily). Having this embrace for learning and doing so quickly, regardless of level of prior finance knowledge, is the upmost important thing.
Fully disclosing that I’m likely biased, as I came from a target & a liberal arts background. Beginning of training and initial ramp as an SA definitely sucked for me... being candid I did suffer from imposter syndrome and decided the best method is to be a sponge: learn as much as I can, continuously tap into a learning/growth mindset if any setback, utilize intuitive/strategic skills while finding my feet in this industry (all skills I needed/relied on in school, major/content agnostic. On lay time during training I literally did a WSP course on accounting and valuation bcs I was truthfully lost. I started off very subpar at the beginning of training yet received my return with extremely positive reviews of my product and was told by HR I was among the strongest in the class (take that as you will lol). End point being, (and to preface I’m not implying anything about nontargets etc by saying this) but what really REALLY defines your subjective performance is your aptitude to grow & learn from instruction and feedback, as straight finance ability (assuming you’re at sufficient) matters a lot less once you’re on the desk and have to learn the actual way of things. Coming from an impressive background; say Stanford, I’m going to assume there’s some merit to that persons ability to rise to the challenge in a skillful way. When speaking to my mentor at the firm early on about my worries, he communicated something of a similar flavor; he also, correctly in retrospect, that these clueless targets coming in (like me!) tend to utilize their type-Aism to get with the tide efficiently. Speaking broadly from the way I see it, intelligent people tend to go to these schools and intelligent people tend to skillfully navigate/problem-solve their way through foreign areas or areas of deficit. Separately, people indirectly implying sloppiness/carelessness as a byproduct of “privileged targets” are not recognizing that it’s entirely a character trait…..independent of pedigree. I really hate the word pedigree as a former 100% scholarship student but honestly even through some dude is a 8x legacy at Harvard and never held a broom in his life does not automatically imply hes more likely to be sloppy at his job due to lack of challenge in his life. If anything, from my own accrued knowledge as a poor student at an Ivy, he’s likely to have accumulated enough knowledge from people within his network (eg family, friends) to know business IQ and is aware of social norms in a professional setting. Not sure if making sense, but the best example to reference from is my great surprise freshman ur at the fact that people at my school actually had extensive knowledge of utensil placement & non-verbal signals to waiters lol. Junior performance (almost entirely for SA and initially for AN1) is strongly tied to organization, running an efficient process, ATD, “execute-repeat” without deviation, intuitiveness and *communication*. From my own personal opinion & being honest, this was much less of an issue for targets.
Honestly, in the most non-condescending way (genuinely) I’m always a bit confused on the “damn target school kids” grudge so many people on this site have.
Prestige/Pedigree/privilege exists everywhere, some doors will always be wider than others; obviously this absolutely is unfair and the levels to which it influences is grotesque but that is society. This is exactly way the “””ivy league””””” even exists and continues to profit for centuries… that’s why I essentially sacrificed my prime teen years by living in a SAT book, taking the bus to college level courses, spent an embarrassing amount of time in analyzing the college app process, fully dedicating my 4-year life to my studies & extracurricular resume builds (yes my HS experience sucked ass) with a rigorous, and in my mind, unstoppable (borderline unhealthy) goal of attending the school that I did. I did this because I knew that 1. I’m poor as shit 2. my college would be a forever association linked to me that would be heavily influential to my career & early life 3. It was the only tangible aspect of “privilege” that I had entire ability to work towards. Note that when I say “obtain privilege” I’m not implying some status symbol/romanticization of any sort. I literally mean privilege as in having the privilege of access to competitive post-college opportunities, even given the fact I, at the time, literally had 0 knowledge or experience. 4. …….literally to make my life easier??? I hated HS & I was a nerd and boring, but I absolutely loved my college experience. I got the liberty to study a non-income generating major I truly enjoyed, discover so much about myself, and am able to see the material benefit my college affiliation brings, unsolicited. With PE recruiting underway already, I’m seeing the differential as well. I don’t say this in a positive light at all as I agree the whole target mess to be a sham, but this is something that I feel like most people living in our society would have expected. Which is why I question this thread.
anyway, this was a long rant written during break and again, primarily written for any young, clueless, non-finance targets (as I was a year ago!) out there who may see this post and feel inadequate. Do not take your learning experience as failure & instead use gratitude to motivate improvement from your shortcomings. Trust this process and at any point of insecurity, look back to your beaten path. And as to this thread - yikes. it’s all around just strange and sounds grudg-y/licking wounds. Would exercise caution as WS is small. Otherwise, get well soon
I was just curious lol, I don't actually really buy into the prestige thing. I just like hearing the stories on this forum! Nothing more really! Also as for why people are annoyed by the idea of target schools, many kids simply can't afford them as aid isn't great for middle class people. I know a lot of kids who did thrive where they went, but they wouldn't have had to work their asses off if they were wealthy enough to pay for some of the other colleges they got into. The unfortunate truth is that it's no longer about SAT scores or any standardized metric- richer people will naturally get more opportunities and they have the benefit of going to nice schools that want to brag about said opportunities so they make it easier to attain the profile necessary. No, you should never assume people who are well off are inherently inadequate or anything like that but is it wrong to point out that the fact that people think the exact same of non targets? I literally saw a comment on here that said "if you want to do IB don't be stupid and go to a good school" which is obviously not meant to be taken as is, but some people genuinely believe that. It's wonderful that you were able to succeed- but what about that kid who tried incredibly hard and made it to a state flagship, which is difficult at schools who don't have good class rigor or good clubs etc.? Kids are being convinced their lives/dream jobs are out of reach/are over if they don't get into XYZ school. People are doing things they shouldn't be doing this young to get into these elite schools, no childhood and all. Is that good? I mainly see people complain about targets when they don't realize just how much of a leg up they have- not just on account of them existing. We can't just write off people's unhappiness with an obviously unfair system simply because it's "lame" or reeks of "insecurity." Not trying to argue, but I don't see the issue. Can you clarify? There are Ivy League grads in the comments who identified similarly prestigious colleges, and given that they're both from targets, I don't believe they are licking their wounds. I'm not trying to dig for ways to "make myself feel better" as I've seen both non target kids and target kids make it from my HS, so idrc…
This is absolutely true. However, prevailing reason most don’t go to these schools is simply that they don’t get in or don’t apply. Financial aid at highly selective schools (referencing ivies primarily here) is *extremely* generous. For example, at Yale some families earning 200k/year still receive aid. Reiterating that need gap indeed does exist at these schools per case by case; however to my knowledge most top targets/ivies exercise policies in their FA offices to get accepted students in, primarily from a PR/matriculating yield POV. Their GDP sized endowments allow this “generosity”.. in most cases and generally, you’re paying more to go to a non-target. Not relevant but wanted to address
People using money to gain access to exclusivity is as old as sliced bread. As I mentioned in my original post, privilege and power will always be imbalanced and such is life. To say *merit* wholly no longer matters is disagreeable to me, regarding the college process. MFs like me would not exist lol; I would even say if anything the college process is becoming *more* accessible, or at least seemed to be trending that way towards my later years. While we do not live in a total meritocracy, education is one of the few areas where merit can produce a sliding scale. Mileage will vary but this is a well known social custom
Brag about said opportunities? Lost me there… I think it’s literally just having the established network via alumni & associations, as well as interest from external sources, provided that they are assigning value to “prestige.” These opportunities are then presented to students, which is the best interest of the school. At the end of the day, schools are businesses first so if students are successful and wealthy -> endowment increases.
and it’s just as Lame and insecure of people to say so about non-targets.
Should said kid continue to work incredibly hard, all will fall into place. Nontargets go into IB all the time; it’s may be a more difficult, nonlinear and exhaustive process, that is the byproduct of society when your end of the stick is short. That being said, it is entirely possible. There’s a dude at my EB with the craziest story on the will and drive he had to exercise in order to go from community college —> IB (obviously many steps in there) which demonstrates that if there’s a will, there is a way. I would also empathize with said kid who had to demonstrate hard work and merit in an inherently unfair process to get me to the desired place. This convo is outside myself but I keep referencing my journey to remind you that I personally had to go through untraditional means when the cards were against my favor to get to where I wanted to be; therefore this demonstrative example is honestly in vain
I agree it’s bad to assign self worth to anything external; in the same breath I would (controversially) argue that there is levels to it. sometimes you gotta make balanced sacrifices as part of chasing a goal/dream. As an example, why are we signing up to work 90-100 hours in our prime 20s, subscribing our weekends and effectively selling off two years of our time in this business? To some/most it may be insane but for myself and my peers there’s a larger goal in mind & a willing sacrifice. Again, balance is key as deteriorating your quality of life to the point of mental/physical suffering (or say missing your childhood) is when discretion should be taken to that balance.
In regards to if attending a target is worth it; idk who you speak to or their respective experiences. For me, I know it changed my life
I encourage you to review my original comment again. I’m not writing off dissatisfaction of an inequitable system, (I agree this it is unjust) I am saying that since inequality will persist (and is increasing, $ wise) it is a better use of time to assess what avenues you are able to take to make it to IB/whatever goal someone may have & focus on your own respective journey.
Ask and you shall receive— your initial post is very obviously implying the difference in regard of non targets vs targets, you prefaced the post with this.. then your question on “list worst analyst and school” is an obvious bait— whether you realize it or not— to discuss incapable targets or point out targets whom are non-finance and are on the learning curve. Its lame and insecure to put others down whether through online forum or otherwise in order to receive validation. Also just bad form to even be referencing real life people from work or encouraging discussion given easy proxies. Not many people from Stanford go into banking, let alone EBs… I’ve been on WSO for a while now for use back in my IB recruiting days (came back for PE recruiting threads…it never ends) and have seen people put the pieces together. As I said, WS is small.
………….that being said I’m not trying to be parental control and usually wouldn’t even comment on that (everyone has their own discretion, idgaf I’m not the police). I just explicitly point this out as I mentioned I summered (now FT) at an EB last year and came from an Ivy. I’m pretty 80% sure I know who that associate is speaking about at the exact SAME firm and SA class I am/was in……………lol. Very, very, very lame.
Ok. Then phrases/beliefs like this:
Shouldn’t affect you. Shouldn’t be a problem to focus on yourself and do what you need to do, confidently so.
That’s crazy bro
shii who read all that?
Sorry that happened
Or happy for you
If I wanted to read a novel I’d have gone to Barnes and Noble
Wharton MBA
uga
Fuck UGA.
THWG
Y'all just upset we are placing multiple people at EVR and GS. stay mad
If you work at a firm that lets any UGA or Georgia Tech kids in, you probably suck too
Ok pal tell me with a straight face that Roark sucks.
From experience a lot of the non targets who are actually able to break in (w/o any sort of family/personal connection) tend to be quite strong because they had to really hustle hard to get in and don’t want to waste all their hard work
Georgetown
reasoning? went to UVA and always got the vibe that Georgetown kids were stuck up, but worked insanely hard.
Prob the only school I’ve been impressed with, puts out consistant talent
Only worked with that one Georgetown grad to be fair but they had a terrible attitude, couldn't do comps by themselves until 6 months in and annoying personality. Didn't have the work ethic either - complained every time they worked after 10. Truly questioned my seniors' judgement for hiring them
Goes to show school doesn't mean shit
One of my interns is from uchicago and has absolutely no EQ. Good work, will prob get a return, but socially inept
some IU kelly kids are really stuck up hardos
This x100000
As an IU grad, i noticed that when the faculty changed the banking program, the kids I hopped on calls with were typically way less personable than just a couple years ago
How was it changed?
100% agree. Seems like a lot less focus on personal development and more focus on placements.
Totally agree, they really live up to the name "Kelley Boner".
New professor a couple years back is a big one. The second big thing is they put a lot of bodies in jobs so I think it's started to get to the kids head and they get a huge ego thinking they actually go to a good school when in reality they go to a safety school.
IU Kelley sucks
Nepotism hire (her aunt is an MD) is a psychology major/ econ minor, and did not know what a 10-k was. Got an RX offer without getting asked a single technical.
Did not use excel or pptx throughout the internship, only took notes on calls and still got a return offer (and scrolled on Instagram pretty much all day).
best analyst - michigan, nyu, wharton
worst analyst - ivy leagues
best associate (mba) - columbia, wharton, cornell
worst associate (mba) - darden, kellogg
worked at 2 top BBs nyc office
best anls / a2a I worked with - Wharton, Cornell, NYU, Claremont McKenna
worst anls / a2a I worked with - USC (Southern California), Ohio State, SMU (this guy fuck*ng sucked)
Lmao I hardly ever hear about any SMU alums on here. What happened?
What happened with the SMU guy? How bad was it?
I’m not politically correct nor am I judgmental about juniors I work with. But, this guy was insanely stuck-up, worst work output I’ve seen (type of guy who would mess up a template), creeped out my gf multiple times when she came out to happy hours. One time I came in during the weekend, office was empty, and noticed he was working out of an MD’s office with his feet up on the desk (I didn’t tell anyone about this). Absolutely ridiculous.
Wharton undergrad
Diversity NYU. God help us all.
Penn state
hot take…? PSU interning with me seems pretty decent. not sure if they are an anomaly though.
I doubt one person represents all of a 50,000+ school either way.
Harvard Online
Worst: Brown, Harvard (2x), Amherst (2x). All legacies, all complete morons.
Best: UVA, UMD, Cornell. Nothing particularly compelling about these guys, they just did the work well and I had no complaints.
I feel like there’s not that much of a difference in schools? Don’t think that’s usually the deciding factor.
It's funny how Ivy's and the non-target diversity kids they complain about both suck equally
Based on the responses it’s pretty clear shit interns come from all different schools
Yup, just curious about that. There seems to be a very stark difference in what people think about either type of school, so that’s cool. Just proves that school doesn’t make the kid.
Worst analyst was from IU (although funnily enough one of the best was also from IU). The sharpest analyst in my class was an Asian kid from Wharton. Insanely fast, chill dude, not stuck up at all (not the case with all the other Wharton guys I met).
An MD I worked with loved a guy above me who went to Cornell. Said 3 of his 4 best analysts came from there (other came from Dartmouth). There were some duds from Cornell but found most of them were pretty sharp and less stuck up than the kids from more prestigious Ivies. UVA and Georgetown kids generally did a pretty good job too. UVA crowd tended to be chiller, on average.
Bad taste in my mouth from interactions with Stern kids. Usually technically sound but irritating / not people I'd want to hang out with.
Obviously can't fully judge a school based on a handful of people but this is what I observed in my experience.
Worst intern I've worked with in my banking days was from UCLA. Great to be around with but wasn't competent at all. If I recall correctly, he's a VP at a BB now so he's doing relatively well for himself.
Worst intern I've worked with at my current fund was from a non-target. Seemed like a sharp and hungry kid from her resume and interviews and had a good stock pitch but was very lazy on the job and thought we were going to spoon feed her.
Best interns have always been the Canadians imo (ivey / queens / mcgill)
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