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Based on previous WSO threads, industrials groups at most banks tend to have particularly challenging hours for several reasons:
Deal Size and Effort: The amount of effort required to close a $100 million deal is very similar to closing a $10 billion deal, but the larger deal generates substantially more revenue for the bank. This means that groups focusing on middle-market (MM) deals, like many industrials groups, often have to work just as hard but for smaller financial rewards, leading to a sweatier environment.
Culture of Competition: There is often a culture of juniors competing to 'work the hardest,' which can result in extended hours. For example, in one industrials team at a bulge bracket (BB) bank, juniors would stay in the office very late, even if they weren't working 20-hour days, just to appear dedicated. This led to management enforcing stricter office hours to ensure availability.
Toxic Senior Management: Some industrials groups have toxic senior management that contributes to a poor working environment. For instance, there are reports of senior levels being overly protected by the firm despite their toxic behavior, which negatively impacts the culture and work-life balance of juniors.
High Expectations and Pressure: Seniors in these groups often put a ton of pressure on junior employees, leading to a stressful and negative work environment. This pressure, combined with a lack of resources to handle all live deals, exacerbates the situation.
Turnover and Morale: The combination of high expectations, toxic culture, and long hours leads to high turnover rates and low morale among junior staff. This further strains the remaining team members, creating a vicious cycle of overwork and dissatisfaction.
In summary, the inherently brutal nature of industrials groups at BB banks is due to a combination of high deal effort for relatively smaller rewards, competitive and toxic cultures, high expectations from senior management, and resulting high turnover and low morale.
Sources: WSO 2022 Investment Banking Work-Conditions Survey (Part 1/3), https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-banking/notorious-investment-banking-groups-and-war-stories?customgpt=1, Which groups should you avoid at all costs?, Thoughts on Financial Technology Partners, Dear Undergrads and Highschoolers
Also very much the case at EBs (Lazard, PWP). I imagine something to do with the culture / personalities of the seniors Industrials tends to attract. Industry culture tends to be more old-school / clients tend to be more traditional -> seniors tend to be more of old-school bankers -> culture tends to be rougher and more in line with old-school banking. Just a conjecture, but from my experience this general theme tends to track across other groups. For example, even though most SF tech groups tend to be pretty sweaty, they also tend to be more culturally "forward" (less face time, less formal dress code), as their seniors are culturally "younger" like their clients.
^ the above is spot on. I have heard the same across my industrials peers at different banks - industrials always seems to be one of the sweatiest groups.
I ) The clientele in industrials is very old school, which trickles down.
II ) The group is also extremely broad and there’s essentially an unlimited universe of companies to pitch to.
Mix these two together, and you get a sweaty experience.
Could you elaborate more on LAZ/PWP Industrial hours and culture?
If I’m a client in ADG or some sand or paper company, I don’t want some millennial banker telling me that they will get back to me Monday if it’s a Saturday — I want an answer now. Industrials clients are some of the most arrogant no-BS type personalities where they think their time is more valuable than the deal itself (Assuming BB experience, can’t speak to boutique and MM). That’s probably reflected in the hours. Especially when your group is getting screamed at constantly by the client, the culture typically makes it way down to the junior level unfortunately.
Industrials sucks ass and is sweaty
Beyond the clientele part. Industrials, like TMT and Healthcare (other groups that are mega sweaty across all banks) are incredibly broad in terms of verticals so there is always more things to do
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