Monkeys,
What are some of the most notorious "Groups" on the street? This can include massive jerks, (overly 100+ regularly) abusive workloads, or just old school street mentalities. For example, I've heard JPM HC is one of the hardest worked Groups on the street.
With that being said, feel free to comment a "through the vine" second hand or first hand war story to back up the claim.
Furthermore, if it comes to mind, it would also be cool to hear of some of the better Groups that universally have awesome cultures - or excellent exits opps.
I noticed there hasn't been a broad post like this anytime recently, and felt it would help gear up people for the summer, whether starting FT roles or internships. At the very least, maybe some stories would give some people a chuckle.
Looking forward to your responses!
I've heard Lazard is straight up abusive.
Same here. I've heard second degree stories of new a analyst getting swatted by an associate with rolled up newspapers while being called an inferior maggot. And fist fights in the break room. No idea if there's any truth here though.
Wow. Can this shit be verified by a legit source? Or other 2nd degree stories?
Even if the latter, then must be legit.
I actually summered at a place that had a former Lazard analyst working as an assoc. The former Lazard analyst was brutal...and would regularly "punish" SAs if it seemed like they were getting too comfortable.
One of her punishments was kind of a market BD thing: she asked the SA to compile a list of 1000 boutique companies in the bank's focus-industry, which were not already in the bank's prospective clients list, their CEOs, the CEOs' contact information, by the next morning at 9AM. It was 4:30PM when she assigned this task.
I didn't mean that all of the groups I listed were notorious in terms of hours spent in the office. GS FIG is notorious because they're the personification of the GS culture. If you know guys/gals in this group, you know what I mean.
They actually aren't the personification of the "GS culture"
Cool, that was obviously my opinion (based on the fact that I eat lunch with VP of the FIG-NY desk once a week). I'm sure you know more about the group from your extensive reading of second-hand accounts on WallStreetOasis.
I wasn't trying to be cocky or anything. It was a simple statement saying that my friend in fact does not reflect the culture you mentioned. No need to become abrasive. Every group has people that reflect the culture and do not. Very rarely does an entire group converge to the same point.
Assuming that my reasoning is based on WSO accounts is a bit childish as well. I prefer to give back and provide detailed answers to actual material, than to be a "My Name is Goldstein". You have no idea what my background is, so making that assumption is just diluting this forum.
Then PM me, stop shitting up the thread crying like you're my 2 year-old son.
The culture is still reminiscent of Salomon Smith Barney in this group (at least in my opinion). Deal flow is one of the highest (if not the highest) on the street with deals regularly getting oversubscribed between 2x-10x (that's the capital markets and syndicates' faults though). Hours aren't insane but they're still in-line with what you'd expect from a top group with a brand name.
This story is from my days in FI (lateraled later on after going back to school but that's besides the point), not sure if this is what you're looking for but it was how things worked a few years ago when I was on the Asia desk:
For those of you who have never worked in bank, at your desk you have a dealer-board (some call them turrets). If I need to pick up a trader, syndicate, sales or research line, it's all right in front of me. There are so many phones ringing constantly on a trading floor that generally the ringer-volume is turned down very low, so for the younger guys it can be easy to miss a call if you aren't paying attention. I've seen kids reduced to actual tears for not answering the phone quick enough / joining a call and not muting their line / etc. which is strange considering most of these guys grew up with some sort of phone in their hand yet they lack basic telephone etiquette. So one of the newer (London-office transfer, let's call him "Johnson") guys' dealer-board lights up and he doesn't pick it up because his chair is swiveled around in my direction as he's telling me how he spotted Mr. [last name], the regional head of [group name] leaving a notorious ex-pat hangout with two prostitutes a few nights ago. In all fairness, I only spotted his board light-up seconds before his ass got chewed. Him: "I met ya mate last night at [the bar], blooming 3 o'clock in the morning clear as mud I saw him! By himself, fucking big cigar and all. Didn't leave by himself though, did he?" Me: "Are you trying to tell me that you saw Mr. [last name] at [popular ex-pat bar] by himself smoking a cigar and he left with a hooker?" Him: "That's what I said innit?" Me: "To be clear, you're saying you saw [last name] pull a late-night solo smash-n-grab at 3am on a Tuesday?" Him: "Are you retarded? Yeah I saw it with me own eyes!" Our boss (not hearing our conversation but clearly noticing a call not get answered):"Johnson are you fucking retarded!? How the fuck can I trust you to sell a bond if you can't even figure out how to answer the fucking phones!?"
Edit: The post below this is correct, this is from John Lefevre's "Straight to Hell" novel about Citi FI in the asian region back in the early 2000s if anybody wants to give it a read.
Houlihan Lokey Chicago is reportedly terrible. There are stories about how some MD there harassed women and interns were worked to the bone and then not given return offers. Just a very negative environment.
The worst groups are the ones you don't hear about. Think about it this way. Once a group or bank starts getting a reputation for being full of jerks or just too intense, HR gets involved. No group wants that. I spent my second year at an MM in a fairly intense group. I'd share some really good stories, but they'd give me away. I had senior bankers who called analysts everything from motherfucker to stupid POS to waste of space. I had senior bankers who would close their office doors so they could scream at the wall. I had one bankers who got so mad once that I literally almost called the police because I thought the banker was going to kill himself out of rage. Our MM was big on promoting analysts to associate, but not only did few analysts ever stay the full two years, but no one ever stayed on for associate.
HR? You think there's an HR department at...oh I don't know...Moelis or Lazard that has the authority to "step in" and change the culture of a group, or of the entire place? You don't need to be a PhD in organizational behavior to know that if that's the way things work, that's the way the boss (who would also be your boss' boss) wants them working. And you leave it the hell alone.
One of my first MDs became infuriated with the intern who was sitting next to me a few years ago. Basically the intern simply didn't know the answer to the question and tried to BS his way out. Cue MDs slaming his fist on what he thought was the interns sandwich. Turns out it was mine and it was still hot so cheese and mustard went all over my shirt, and to top it off the intern cracked and burst out laughing. He was forced to pay a few hundred £ for my shirt and tie and the MD made a point of him never coming back. Said MD continued to crush my sandwiches whenever he saw them for the next year or so as a joke.
What a shitty MD. God damn it's an intern. There is an experience gap of more than 10-15 years. Why would anyone be angry at that
I doubt he was mad that the intern didn't know the answer to a question, he was probably angry that the intern tried to bullshit his way out of the question. This is one of the biggest no-go's in banking (especially as an intern), if you don't know something then ask someone who does.
I heard at Morgan Stanley there are a few MDs who, if they find even a single error in a final pitchbook, take the first year analyst reponsible and dunk their head in a toilet. Thoughts?
it's not so bad, the toilets are usually clean. plus if you're bald it's easy to make yourself presentable again.
Old school: one of my old bosses told me he was taking it easy on us - when he was a junior, he got the order of information wrong on a call (not the data, just the order he presented it in), call finishes, MD goes back to his office, shuts the door, and kicks his desk apart. Summons my boss, tells him to clean it up while MD heads out to another meeting.
Industrials team at a BB had a culture of juniors competing to 'work the hardest' (re: stay in the office the latest), it resulted in guys regularly going home at 4:00 or 5:00, but rolling into the office at 11:00 am, so not like they were actually pushing 20 hour days, just staying late. MDs got pissed because they could never find juniors, and knocked that shit off, in by 8:00 am, and have to justify to staffer if you were there late.
Friend of mine at a MM in the infra team was freaking out because the juniors banded together and decided that they just weren't going to work that late anymore, he asked a first year to do some modelling, and the kid said no, straight up no, because it would keep him there too late, but he could start it tomorrow. Bastards decided that the team was busy enough that they couldn't fire all the juniors. That was the way it went until bonuses went out (nobody that participated in this crap got paid), and they (virtually) all got replaced.
Wow. The third is totally ridiculous- it's just so "millennial." There are probably hundreds of hungrier kids that would kill to be in their spot.
BMO Metals and Mining in Toronto. Hope you don't like your Sunday nights. Good prestige tho, so if you don't mind working like an Ox it's a notorious group.
JPM FIG has a pretty shitty culture according to a couple buddies of mine in the group
KA Alabama hazes pretty hard. My friend's girlfriend's little brother's friend goes there and I heard through the grapevine that he had to eat FIVE full cans of long cut Grizzly Wintergreen, WHILE screwing a goat, while planking on bottle caps.
She sounds primed to take out to dinner
My roommate is at Moelis. Works until midnight 1-2am every night, M-Saturday. Sunday works until around 8pm. Also typically pulls an all nighter 3-4 times a month. He hates the job and is quitting as soon as he gets bonus. This is how you know Moelis is bad, he gets a two year bonus (in addition to the standard year bonus) of $70k. Literally they hold a carrot in front of you to get you to stay. He says its absolutely not worth the money.
A different firm, an MD at my company was an MD at Jefferies and said the group head of the NY ibank office is a complete asshole. He would show up to the office at 5pm on saturdays to check who was there. He also told me a story how this asshole showed up one saturday evening and noticed the analysts & associates wearing jeans, casual, etc. This was during the summertime in NYC on a weekend. The group head says "what is this a gymnasium? Everyone go home and put a suit on and come back"
Finance careers are awesome, the people that work in it suck
That last MD sounds alright, it pisses me off to no end when guys come in to the office in jeans or worse, worse a t-shirt.
Its the weekend. You're not seeing clients. I personally think its stupid to get upset over it. Obviously you don't want to look like a slob but put it into context. The only people you're dressing for is the other analysts/associates and to appease an MD that randomly shows up. I think the amount of damage to moral and increasing the likelihood of people departing your firm, its not worth it
Calling BS on someone demanding suits on a Sunday. Not calling BS on an MD doing bedchecks on a Saturday. You would not believe how f'd up some of these guys' personal lives are. I mean you just wouldn't. The ones doing this are usually some combination of divorced multiple times, loathed by their children, extremely unhealthy, friendless, and able to justify it only by convincing themselves that the choices they made weren't actually choices but requirements of the job.
I know one MM TMT group practices what the analysts lovingly refer to as "fake-offs". If a senior hears of a bake off that they didn't get invited to, they'll have the juniors prepare a pitch book to send to the client anyway.
All the pain of a pitch book, with zero chance of it ever turning into a live deal.
Heard Evercore's Houston office grinds hard. Know some people working there, but don't have any entertaining stories to tell. Just know the hours are brutal.
Exit ops are killer from what I heard. Guys signing to go to Blackstone/Apollo after like 6 months on the job.
Lots of posts here. Not sure what I can add, but here we go...
From Colleagues/Friends - Morgan Stanley Lev Fin desk circa 2004-2007 and 2011-present; Lot of people embellish hours in banking. Sure some weeks are truly 90, but its not like that year round, right? Apparently, MS Lev Fin holds those hours at all times. Have a college buddy that I roomed with in a converted 1BR into 2BR (post college in Murray Hill rocks I guess) and he never got home before 2am. Never saw him on weekends either.
From Personal Experience - FI derivative desk at a firm circa 2006-2008 that is no longer around/merged/acquired (e.g. ML, Lehman, Bear, MC Global, etc.); So this is more on the S&T end, but we faced the product bankers so often that let's just call it banking (realize I'm taking liberties here). Had a VP that came around and took all the mice out of the junior employees computers and made us read a McGraw Hill tomb of a book on valuing businesses. End of week we would have a 'mini test' to see if we could navigate all computer programs without a mouse and build models per the book. Sucked.
This thread is just fucking epic.
Not as wild as the others, but I have a friend who interned at a bank that specialized in O&G, and said that one of the VPs would regularly invite first years and interns to do blow with him on his desk.
Are they hiring analysts? Asking for a friend.