Work life balance = highly overrated
A2A. 4 years in banking. Recently exited to the strategy team of a F500. Left very burnt out.
With 6 months behind me, I can confidently say WLB is very overrated. Unless you have children, there is not much to do on weekdays. I get off work at 5pm. Commute home by 6pm (no more Uber Black). Go to the gym until 7pm. Shower. Cook dinner (no more Seamless), eat dinner, cleanup until 9pm. Watch TV until 11pm.
It is not a fulfilling lifestyle. I am also at the age where friendships are now taking a backseat to romantic relationships. Unless you are in a serious relationship (and want more time with your partner)... have a higher calling (like a business idea or travel plans), just keep grinding. Your 20s are meant for grinding. If you are an analyst reading this, just stay in banking or PE.
TLDR: WLB is a overrated concept
Grass is always greener
.
Gettin no girls huh
It’s a balance point as always. Would you rather be 29 and no time to date, go gym, see friends, have hobbies?
Perhaps you just don’t find your job very interesting
I agree balance is important. Towards the end, I had no problem squeezing in a 30 minute workout most days. I would go for runs at 6am. I trained for a marathon in banking.
I am not 29 yet, but when I am 29 I would rather be rich than slogging it along in some corporate job... hoping to climb up the ranks over the next 20 years. No! No! No!
I will say: my life is immeasurably less stressful now, and I do not have immediate plans to return back to banking. But I think about it often whether I made the right choice. Had I stayed another 2 years, 4 years, 6 years... I would have exited to a more senior position.
Hate to break it to you but 29 year old bankers and PE folk are not rich living in their rented 1BR apartments.
Someone please show me these so-called rich associates.
time is the currency of life and you don’t get your 20s back
You're not wrong... that's very true...
Spent my 20s watching netflix - shit was dope.
after 20s, you have 30s and 40s and so on, and they're even better since 1) you have money and can afford to do what you want, 2) you're more mature, which leads to more success in pretty much every aspect of life.
That is the dumbest take I have ever read. I also had a transition phase at my prior stint (MBB) where I basically was working corporate hours on internal stuff (i.e., 9-6 pm). My life completely changed during that period.
It was also during summer so whereas typically on projects weeks would just buzz by sitting in front of my laptop from 9 am to midnight while already feeling accomplished by hitting the gym once between mo-thu, I felt so alive, sharp and well rested again.
In a typical day I managed to go for a 10k run, read 1-2h (finished classics I always wanted to pick up again like "Crime and Punishment"), cook something really healthy and nice, walk with my significant other and our dog as well as watch a TV show together in the evening. Of course there was also variations, e.g., going out with friends for dinner on a regular Wednesday, etc.
During that time I also lost a good ~12 pounds and got shredded, with abs/veins peaking through every morning. My resting heart rate also decreased from ~55 to ~37 whereas my HRV went from low 80s up to 140.
I realized even though they are so highly paid, partners are just freaking slaves. They have zero freedom. None of them could go to a dinner with friends on a Wednesday because they sit in some shitty conference room or hotel room to serve clients.
[Removed my own comments because I was cringing at it]
Resting heart rate at 37 is insane dude wtf. Like is that normal 😂
+1. even 55 is already low. but 37 is like dangerously low. I think this guy may need more stress to be healthier :)
But I agree with the general message. When I have stressful busy periods of life at work, my resting heart rate is in 80s, then when I move to smth less demanding and more predictable, it drops to 60s.
I took some more time to digest. For me, it comes down to this: if you manage your time well in IB, you can begin to carve out some semblance of WLB with seniority. I realize MBB travels so maybe not but when I was working 9am to 12am, I would still have enough time to workout or run 30 minutes. Not quite a 10k, but it feels good. I would occasionally walk home too. Before my gf broke up with me, I would watch TV and hang out with her in the evenings (granted not with my full attention). I miss my gf...
My points is — I'm not sure what exactly my point is — but despite having much more free time than before, I don't feel that much more fulfilled. A good metaphorical / literal example: I used to workout 30 minutes, now I workout 60 minutes, but I still bench the same amount.
Well said Associate 2 in PE.
There are some people that are truly so boring and unimaginative that they actually make perfect bankers. Give them all the time and money in the world and they still find a way to sit around and do nothing and complain.
Imagine being in your 20s with a decent job, cash stack, the ability to see your friends, go on dates, lift daily, pursue hobbies daily, start a business, or do literally anything that interests you, and instead you resort to writing an extended post about how there is no point in having a WLB.
TLDR: WLB is overrated if you don’t know what to do with your time when you’re not working for the man.
Working for the man in finance is easy. Your boss tells you what to do and when to do it (the answer is always yesterday btw). You always have an excuse for everything else in life if you need one. You just shut your brain off and do it. If you’re lucky and have some downtime, it’s easy to fill with whatever you’ve been meaning to do or just “wind down”.
Having WLB makes it impossible for you to make excuses. WLB means I have predictability and when I don’t build my own side hustle / educate myself / pick up more hobbies, it’s because of my lack of discipline and imagination.
Finance makes you think you’re doing big things and it’s you driving it, so we hate to think we’re not disciplined or creative. What few of us understand is that working under external pressure in a machine is not the discipline we think it is, and that we’re among the least creative people on the planet (which is why we buy art instead of creating it).
OP is a worker bee. A worker bee separated permanently from its hive will typically die within a few hours to a couple of days because it doesn’t know what to do with itself. Some people are just meant to be worker bees and won’t be satisfied with anything else in life.
Thanks for sharing. Do you mind sharing how you spend your free time? You mentioned side hustle / educate yourself / pick up more hobbies. Personally, I am passionate about the news and world affairs and in IB I felt like I had much more of a natural exposure to it. I also like to workout, which takes 1 hour max. Even before I was squeezing in a 30 minute workout most days. I don't want to pick up a hobby just for the sake of picking up a hobby (e.g., crocheting !?)
Clearly it’s a very personal choice but when I had a chill stretch of time, I decided to go all-in on sports and studying history/geopolitics. Went to the gym as usual but added tennis and BJJ (an hour once a week doesn’t cut it for either, so you can sink as much time into them as you like). The key is to find something that you actually want to do and that you’re passionate about. Most likely you won’t know from the get go but trying new things could be your first step and then you’ll go from there.
There’s no such thing as balance. Just figure out what you want, make good choices, and do the best you can with the cards you’re dealt.
Sounds like you are just a chud. You finally have time in the evenings and you are now realizing you have no friends or bitches.
I don't have many friends... and my girlfriend broke up with me :(
That's ok bud, life has ups and downs. Now you have more free time to go do shit and meet new people. I say embrace it.
Thought so. Some people hide behind work as a way to pretend they are too busy for a social life but in reality it was never there.
Grab life by the balls and create a social life. For me, pickup basketball was a great way to make friends and with corporate hours, I can go right after work.
I also have time for dates on Friday evenings.
you're in a perfect situation to go on dates and bang
WLB is overrated because you live a boring ass life? Lmao.
I like to travel. I like to eat at restaurants with my girlfriend, but she broke up with me. I like to read the news, especially global affairs.
Admitting you are a someone with no interest in anything is quite a thing to see.
With all due respect, you sound like you desperately need some hobbies/ passions. I think there is something out there for everything.
Any buddies of mine with sick interests (or even ordinary hobbies) would have a way more positive vibe with more time on their hands.
I get it tho; if you were so focused on 'the path' since 18 you never developed those. Whether or not that is a healthy decision in a perfect world is another topic.
I used to work at an extremely sweaty EB with unreasonable MDs had to operate constantly under massive stress and had to take pills to fall asleep and had chronic diseases. Since I have lateraled to a competitor EB with significantly better WLB (understanding and more capable MDs and better culture) I don’t take pills anymore and I’m able to train for half marathon and my career longevity has massively increased and at my old shop I might have got burned out much earlier
What EB? Thinking similar move
The worst part about WLB isn’t the long hours themselves (at least, not only them), but the consequences of such work after 2-3 years
I hear you and I don't think you are off base for feeling that way. But I would disagree overall. You mentioned having kids and yes that absolutely changes things and WLB becomes exponentially more important than when you are single and in your 20s.
That being said, I think you are overlooking having freedom in your late 20's and early 30s. This is the time period where you, and hopefully most of your friends, have the means to go and do fun stuff without many responsibilities. You can take a random long weekend and travel with friends somewhere. You can go to an NFL or college football game and tailgate all day, without worrying if your MD will call. You can go on 2 dates in one week without cancelling. You can start a hobby or build something on the side. If you are making good money, getting off work at 5, and live in a decent city, you have so many possibilities.
Or you could grind 80 hours a week until you are in your mid to late thirties, start a family, and then find WLB. But you might look back and regret you spent your prime years at a desk all night and didn't get to have a lot of fun experiences. Now you are tied down with kids and your world becomes much more focused and those prior opportunities are mostly gone.
Do you not have hobbies? If I had the money to fully support my current lifestyle + hobbies, I could retire right now and never be bored a day in my life. I'm 32.
I'd love to hear what your hobbies are!
I have a weekend car I take out almost every Saturday with a car club Spring-Fall for cars n coffee and sometimes to the Tail of the Dragon, I have 17acres of hunting property I manage for deer and turkey which is a lot of work (fun work) and it has a 300sqft shed with a woodstove we use as a hunting camp (just insulated it recently so the heat stays in there) so I'm always cutting/spitting/stacking firewood (chainsaws and axes are awesome), I then hunt those deer during winter, enjoy collecting/drinking Scotch, gardening, PC gaming when I'm inside or winding down from work, I lift weights 4-5 days a week, play golf when I can, play the violin (used to be a chore when I did it for monehy, now I just find old timers to play bluegrass with, it's a hoot). I have more hobbies than I have time for, easily. $10m today in my bank account and you'd never hear from me again. I'd disappear into a car shop, golf courses, and the woods.
I just finished my SA stint and I weirdly agree with this. I would go home after a long day, maybe get a quick lift in but that's it, and right back at it and I honestly would think "what better things could I even be doing with my time"? Like as long as I got some time on weekends where I was able to hang out with a friend or do something, that was enough honestly, I didn't mind grinding the rest. I'm also in a new city where I know no one so working to me is a lot better than rotting or doomscrolling all day, maybe when I meet more people my perspective will change but I honestly agree
I always knew this forum was absolutely doomed with hardos and genuine WEIRD PEOPLE but holy shit posts like this and a couple comments agreeing have solidified that for me so hard
Trying to say this in the nicest way possible, but it sounds like 4 years of banking made you a boring person with no hobbies. Now is the time to rediscover your passions and the community that comes with that
What is the point of a hobby? What am I supposed to join my local sports league, learn guitar, and learn bartending? IDK it just feels a bit gay (sorry for use of that language, I full recognize it offends some people, but I just think that's the best phrase - I am not homophobic)
This website and people in finance NEVER fail to amuse me. You did not just with a straight face type what are the points of hobbies and that they are "gay". Is this rage bait? Genuinely.
Jumped between IB RX > Consulting > PE > now CorpDev, so i can chime in on this.
WLB is overrated if:
That's it.
I used to think that WLB is overrated until i discover an actual life outside of work. Now i can work 20-40 hour week and paid almost the same like i was in IB/Consulting (considering the shitty bonus i received) AND still have a lot of time to chase my hobbies/passion AND take care of my loved ones.
I can actually spend those money towards stuff that i ACTUALLY like (ie. travel, videogames, eating out.. stuff that requires a significant time commitment which you don't have in those "high-performing" careers) rather than just keeping up with prestige and the lifestyle of some of the people who work in those career path (some of which is nepo-babies who already a millionaire before they were born).
So yeah, TLDR : your personal life sucks.
Thanks for sharing. You are a good number of years ahead of me. My question is how do you spend your free time if you only work 20-40 hours? Compensation wise, you are completely correct. With my ass bonuses, I am not actually taking too much of a pay haircut. I just feel bored. You can only spend max 1 hour in the gym per day - after that you are just not efficient. Likewise, how often are you eating out? How often are you traveling? I feel like video games are a waste of time. I thought about getting a 2nd job. Not entirely sure about the legality, but it would double my income (although I am certainly not short on cash right now, so IDK if it is worth it).
TLDR: I am aware my personal life sucks. I feel like my free time would be much more valuable if I had a gf, but she broke up with me not long ago. I liked spending time with her. I do not feel like going out to eat at a restaurant alone on a weeknight.
As Paul Bettany said in Margin Call = "You'll learn to spend with what you have".
Initially i was bored and resorted to your usual hobbies/activities like partying/drinking with your peers. Then i developed health problems so that's out of the question now. Then i started solo dining in fine dining establishment (Michelin Star restaurants/spots) but it gets old quickly since most of them taste/feel the same to me. Travelling i do as much as i can given the limited PTO that i have so mostly twice a year.
Videogames is probably my go to, and before you say anything, yes it is a waste of "time" but then eating out is technically even worse since the experience only lasts for about 2 hours or so. I deliberately play games with semi-active competitive scene so i can at least play ranked to achieve something.
Don't get a 2nd job, money is only good if you can spend them (preferably on yourself). Relationship is only good when you met the right one and are content with your personal life, so don't get one out of spite/just because you're lonely. Trust me, being alone/lonely is FAR better than being with the wrong person. Plus no need to share all of your hard earned cash just because this person is "attached" to you.
Totally disagree. Wasn't able to have my first ever relationship in my life until I left the Street at 26. I have even more time + disposable income than I did college. I know people figure it out, but I legitimately do not understand how people seriously date when they work in IB/PE.
You just need to get some girls...now if someone is already in a committed relationship by the time they get into IB then I could kinda understand your point.
WLB during the week to execute on a transaction that builds your skills and resume up isn't the main problem, its the weekends that get blown up for no reason and/or the unnecessary facetime cultures some firms hold onto if they're weird working from home. Like when you get staffed on a pitch or get a stack of comments to turn on Friday afternoon, with further comments into Saturday and Sunday on parts of a deck that nobody's going to read, and cancel your plans.
The weekend plans you cancelled to change footnotes and move logos around in alphabetical order to fit another 2 or 3 strategics into the deck, or worse, pull together a market analysis that is largely just copied/reworded from some random Mckinsey or PWC report that someone in the middle-ranks decided would be "value-add" for a market analysis section that the MD decides to scratch it out entirely in the final version Monday morning.
The worst part is staying late just because the MD got distracted watching youtube videos between 3-5pm and respond to emails between 5-8 as you sit in your cubicle having finished your work hours ago, and feeling relieved as he leaves the office at 9, followed by your VPs at 9:15, followed by your Associates at 9:30, and then finally you at 9:45 as an Analyst.
Those are the parts of WLB that don't make sense to sacrifice.
My brotha let me introduce you to a super sick concept: hobbies. While I agree that your 20s are meant for grinding, I think you can definitely have a more fulfilling life than what you are describing.
If there is any ladies in the chat please explain to OP in 6 or 7 words what it feels like to meet a guy who doesn't really have hobbies/ interests.
The adjustment after leaving banking is tough. Finding hobbies or outside projects helps fill those evening hours once the initial burnout fades.
Pace yourself a bit. Everyone is different in terms of what's important in one's life. Also people change (hopefully one does change, especially between 20-30-40's), and priorities change. I see too many people burn out early. For some, they end up hating the job and just care for the pay; fine, take that early retirement. But for others, who has actual interest in the work, it's a pity to burn yourself out.
Cool you have free time from 9PM to 11PM. Better than working til 3:30AM.
Have you considered doing activities with friends after work? Lol
You didnt really have to do banking to get to the job you are in now
Gotta find something that fulfills you or consider going back to work to just fill the time while you can. The social thing is tough but you can easily make new friends with effort. Above all else tho don't knock WLB until you've invested time in having a "life". It might not be for you and that's ok! But you don't know until you tried. Many people feel this way, even at retirement. Lots of people go crazy during the beggining years of retirement after the white collar grind and slowly get used to it after a couple of years.
You're young so you have all this "energy" with no outlet. For some it's best used on work and for others it's best used else where - just gotta figure that out for yourself.
Sorry, but this is probably the dumbest take I’ve read on here.
If you genuinely prefer working until 2–3 a.m. every night and basically never leaving the office before 5, maybe it’s worth talking to a therapist about why you feel the need to structure your entire life around work.
There are so many better things you could be doing with your time: family, friends, dating, traveling, exploring new places, reading, working out, volunteering for a charity and helping other people, learning a language, etc.
I just don’t buy the argument at all. I completely understand the case for IB — prestige, money, better exit opportunities, potentially retiring earlier, whatever. But “I don’t know what I’d do with my time after 5” is probably the weakest argument for working 80+ hours a week that I’ve ever heard.
I mean yes of course work life balance is overrated when you dont have any hobbies or way to fill the time.
lol well that's because your life prior to banking was shit and consisted probably of jerking off and watching tv. Find a hobby or two and touch grass
Just don't be a pariah and you're good. Have something going on for yourself outside of work
One last comment: this might be TMI and I hope it doesn't come across as trolling, but are hobbies not a bit "gay"? I put it in quotation marks to avoid sounding homophobic.
Like is Putin... Xi... entrepreneurs... surgeons... CEOs reading fictional books or crocheting? It just feels a bit "gay." Are they hanging out at a wine bar at 6pm on a Tuesday? No. Weekdays are for working. Masculine activities like working out, training for a marathon, BBQ'ing don't take that much time, and can be accommodated even in intense fields. I also find it telling that people telling me to get a hobby are themselves working in IB or PE.
At the same time, I do understand where a lot of you are coming from. Life is not meant to be spent behind the desk. I am not one of those people who drank the corporate kool aid either. And on my death bed, I am sure I will not want to have worked more. It's a difficult balance. Maybe that first person was correct: the grass is always greener on the other side. FWIW, I HATED BANKING when I was in it. For 4 years, I hated my life. It's just now that I'm out... it feels "meh." Much nicer, but IDK... I still lack fulfillment (and I make less now).
This is hilarious and will get downvoted to hell but there is an essence of truth.
This comment section is full of insecure people who couldn’t find fulfillment in their job or more likely just weren’t cut out for the grind.
Jumping ship will not make you an inherently more interesting person. You’re not going to start a company, learn Chinese, or become a 5 star chef once you have more time on your plate. Realistically that time is going towards doing the same stuff you did before in your minimal free time.
Yes obviously you need friends and romantic engagement, but those are for the weekend. Maybe I’m tripping because I don’t have kids but think a high-paying, more engaging work environment is worth losing the time to read the classics or crochet on weekdays.
I'm glad you get me. This is exactly how I feel. Reading fiction, learning guitar, crocheting does not make you interesting: it's "gay" (quotation marks bc I am not homophobic).
Life's satisfaction comes from doing hard things: investment banking, climbing mountains, lifting weights - all of which is possible while juggling a demanding career.
This is REALLY going to sound like I am trolling, but I am attaching this image of Putin working out and grilling steak. Is this not the perfect day? This takes 40 minutes: 30 minute workout + 10 minutes to grill the meats. It doesn't require hours upon hours of free time. You could do this most days if you wanted (the problem becomes too much red meat, not too little time).
Anyone with “analyst 1” in their title should be banned from making comments about burnout
Buddy, you’re still the bright eyed analyst with gas left in the tank. Make it to year 2 at least before you start commenting stuff like this because anyone can do this job for 6 months
This isn't WLB being overrated. It's the job having rewired what "alive" feels like. Four years of grinding teaches your nervous system to register calm as emptiness — so the quiet 5pm reads as boredom, not freedom. That's not proof the grind was worth it. It's the withdrawal.
Lol never beating the allegations that finance people are boring drones.
S tier rage bait
Get a life man
Agree and Disagree.
Your points applies to anyone who doesn't have any real life missions (as you pointed out in your post), should be gospel for the first 3-5 yrs of your career, and most likely is a common reaction for those who have some sort of novelty seeking nervous system/cognitive architecture (ADHD or the like).
But if you do have these, and i mean them at the spiritual level, and want to pursue them deeply, WLF becomes the most important thing in the world.
You might just be someone who needs a consequence laddled lifestyle. Plenty of Diplomats/Spec-Ops/Intelligence officers feel the same way. A high paced lifestyle in an interesting posting abroad, then back home to suburbia, with nothing to give you the fire of life.
Ultimately depends on who you are. Agreed that the "play video games, read books, nit" advice is a bit silly. You need something more definitive to make your additional free time seem like an asset.
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