Would you move to a 'tier-2' city?
Out of curiosity and thinking about my personal situation: would you move to a tier-2 city? I work in IBD at a BB and was recently given the opportunity to move to CLT...A few years ago it would be out of the question for me; I began my career in NYC. Thinking it over now, I would be saving at least $20k a year in income tax or more, a few % in sales tax which I think adds up, $24k+ in rent, and a better quality of life. Also, considering how much cheaper food/entertainment is, I think I would save ~$50k+ annually and that would only grow.
Has anyone here done it? I'm guessing there are people considering it given the current circumstances. I'm not one of these NYC is doomed types, but I think it would be foolish to think it is going to get back to normal anytime soon. There are serious fundamental issues there with budget shortfalls (read: higher taxes coming), quality of life and other things that I think will only worsen for the foreseeable future. Considering moving now more than ever.
I don't have the right answer for you (a move is certainly very tempting), but I will point out that I had to look up what CLT even stood for...
I mean I literally did.
I mean, I really don't get all the hate for Cross Laminated Timber. It's not plywood, and seems pretty cool as a housing material.
what is the ms standard now? why 9 people ms this comment? pls fix your interns' downtime.
Yeah, this is the most MS/whining I've ever received. Lots of salty CLT boyz in this thread
Many are currently pondering this and if they're not, they should be (as their company is pondering it for them). Of course it's a personal decision but a mistake many make when pondering is they think it's binary. High COL with arts and culture and dining, etc. vs. low COL with drudgery. The reality is many T2 (and T3 for that matter) have lots to offer, just not in the quantity of NYC. Full disclosure: I've lived around many cities and have been to NYC many times.
As an example, I live in Tampa. No I'm not arguing Tampa is more fun than NYC. There is, however, plenty of good restaurants, museums, theater etc. Nowhere near the scale of NYC and it's not in your face. You have to go find it. But when you do, you say, "wow this is pretty good". My wife and I are big theater folks. We love live theater. Is Tampa like Broadway? No, not even close. But they are a major stop on the national Broadway tour circuit and get all the shows, are always sold out, etc. The tour loves Tampa. So we joined the Performing Arts Center Broadway series and have seen 6 or 7 shows per yr for aprox 20 yrs. Every major show you've ever heard of that's toured, we've seen. Again not arguing it's as ggod as Hamilton on Broadway. It isn't, but it's still great. We're thinking about making two trips per yr to NYC specifically to see shows. Rather do that and stay in the sun.
Summary: not binary.
Made this type of move a few years ago, I was extremely skeptical, but honestly could not be happier:
People like to dismiss the cost savings outright "yeah there's a reason why things are cheaper" but those who haven't lived it don't quite get it. It accelerates your goal timeline, relieves anxiety, and gives you tons of flexibility. I was able to live where and how I wanted anywhere in the city. I can soon buy a nice house in one of the best neighborhoods with a top notch school district. My commute, and more importantly the quality of my commute was greatly improved. When I go to the park to play tennis, odds are there is a court open. On top of that, I can join a club with all the extra money I have. I have more money to travel, and the airport is 20 minutes away. I can get lower bowl tickets to sports games, or season tickets if I want (wish I had the time!).
If you list the activities you *actually* do on a weekly or monthly basis, I would guess that 95% or more can be done in any decent sized city (like CLT, or any other with sports teams, etc.)
I'm not here to shit on NYC, there is a reason many of us do a stint there, but all it will do is make you appreciate this move so much more.
LA or NYC only
With all due respect--this is simply false (if we're talking about things like IB).
HW in Richmond, Baird in MKE, Piper/Jeff/Wells/Blair + others in Charlotte all pay street. There isn't any discount based on location. I feel like what you just said is that "assumed" case but it's not actually true. The Wells MD in Charlotte is not making less (for location reasons) than the Wells MD in NY.
It's of course true that many opportunities will be in NYC and there are network effects, but that's a different argument.
I’ve lived in NYC, Chicago and Dallas. Give me Dallas all day. The kind of place you can get here for the price is incredible. And most firms, including mine, do not adjust comp for COL. Plenty of great restaurants, pro sports, etc for what I need.
Oh god, here we go. Quickest way to turn an interesting discussion into a rankings and prestige thread lol
tier 1: midtown
tier 2: fidi
tier 3: everywhere else
It really shouldn't be, not anymore. Miami has LA beat on both PE and Hedge Funds nowadays, save for a couple big names in LA, and its nightclub is arguably better, just different.
I moved out of NYC to another of the largest cities in the country (not LA / SF). I would ask yourself the following questions, in order of priority:
1. DELIVERY FOOD. You have no idea how good you have it right now. Your delivery options at 4am on a Tuesday are better than my options at 6pm on a Saturday. The biggest disappointment to moving out of NYC was the fact that delivery options plummeted. Also, top tip, when looking for an apartment, check the delivery options at all hours of the week; you might laugh but this will annoy you if they suck and you only find out after moving in.
2. RESTAURANTS. Piggy-backing on the first point, your dining options will be much more limited post-COVID, and this is even before half of them go belly up.
3. DATING. (Speaking from the perspective of men dating women) If you're single, this is huge. Your options are going to severely decline in quality. When I say severely, I mean severely. Just think about how fewer professional jobs there are in CLT than NYC. You're no longer located in the center of finance / luxury retail / consumer goods / fashion / modeling. Every swipe on Bumble isn't going to be a brand manager at P&G, or an ad person at LVMH, or an IBD VP. There's probably a few large companies headquartered there besides WF, and then the rest will be working middle class jobs. Probably a lot of hairstylists, and probably a lot of people that live in the boonies that you want nothing to do with. You will also see that the average prospect is going to be much less in shape than in NYC, and much less fashionable.
4. COST OF LIVING. Sure, important. I decided to pay the same rent as what I was paying for my pretty lame 1-br in Brooklyn, and was able to get a luxury apartment in a building that has a pool / gym / rooftop deck / indoor golf simulator / etc. within walking distance to work. I've stayed in the same place so have benefitted from operating leverage as my income has increased. Once you've got rent dialed in, everything else is generally cheaper too, so you just have way more freedom with your money. Looking back on my time in NYC, it felt like I was constantly trying to scrape by; now I'm putting a lot in the bank. I don't think I could live in NYC again unless I was at VP level or above. You also might need a car in CLT, so something else to consider.
5. ABILITY TO BUY. You can actually buy a home if you want. I imagine you could get decent places in CLT for $150-200k if you wanted. No idea what the property tax situation is but having this option is frankly just great.
5. NEED FOR RELOCATION. What if you lose your job? What if you don't like it and want a new one? Chances are you'll have to move again, likely back to NY. This has the added disadvantage of making your life in CLT feel somewhat transitory, given that you know you'll have to move eventually anyways as it's pretty unlikely you'll stay at the same bank your whole career. In NY your living situation is much more established, because if you have to leave one bank every single other one is within a couple blocks radius for the most part.
6. TRAVEL. No idea what the situation is but definitely something to look into. NYC is a global travel hub. It'll likely be more arduous to go to Europe and other destinations due to this.
7. LIFESTYLE. Everything is going to be smaller, slower and quieter. It may feel relatively deserted to you after being used to the liveliness of NY. Some people like this, some people don't. You also will not have the benefit of being at a cultural hub. You won't be able to go see the greatest Broadway plays. Pretty much every single performer goes to NY; this won't be the case for CLT. Significant cultural happenings will no longer be a subway ride away. You will be stuck with local theater / orchestra / ballet / shows / etc. No more sample sales or meaningful fashion-related events. If you're into those sorts of things it's definitely something to think about.
Analyst --
The response you are looking for is an age-dependent, marital status, lifestyle and money situation which only YOU can answer correctly.
I currently live in what those on WSO would consider a "third tier" US city (7 Fortune 500's) in the Midwest and couldn't be happier.
College in Northeast, 3 years slumming it in NYC at the "Dorm" with 2 room mates being single. Awesome time. Lived in Juno Beach, Columbus, OH, 10 years back in NY (NJ residence) and now in this great place.
Basically, I get paid 75% of NYC wages at 50% of the cost. Top 5 school system. Commuting is 30 minutes or less. No train, subway, bridge / tunnel. 5500 sqft house $475,000. Neighbors are fantastic. Low / Capped Taxes.
Oh did I mention I have 5 kids and married 20+ years and three of the kids choose/chose in state schools?
My point? My choices will not reflect yours or anybody else. They are YOUR choices. I left a BB and went back to a different one 10 years later. Didn't affect me at all.
Your results may vary.
Namaste.
D.O.U.G.
My favorite comments on this thread are by ignorant undergrads/analysts who can't seem to distinguish between a top 30 city and idk, Gary, Indiana.
You've either never lived outside of a major city (beyond college maybe) or have such a deeply held romantic version of the life you lead in NY/LA that you can't seem to grasp reality. You seem to believe that people outside of NYC want to be you and live out the make believe movie script that plays in your head, but I assure you nothing could be further from the truth.
Southern girls hit different. Way more blondes. Snobby city chicks from CT that benchmark me to their hedge fund fathers are my least favorite humans.