If it is an analyst or associate, it is a bit harsh - unless he is from other side of the pond or something. But if it was a senior banker, I would understand.
Lol I don't think anyone wants to work for someone who structures their sentences like an asshole just to sound more dramatic anyway.
Guy is a schmuck and clearly does not get much respect from his peers, clients and counterparties if he's this fussed about a perceived lack of being put on a pedestal by a college kid in a cold email.
Thanks for getting back to me and saving me the trouble of applying and having to ask about culture. I think your email summed this up for me and everything I would need to know. I wish whoever your firm hires the most luck in the world as you’re clearly going to make them need it.”
Thanks for getting back to me and saving me the trouble of applying and having to ask about culture. I think your email summed this up for me and everything I would need to know. I wish whoever your firm hires the most luck in the world as you’re clearly going to make them need it.”
I know this is probably a joke but for the OP, don't send this (or anything really) as a reply. Just let it be and let the universe do its thing. This is not an industry where you can inspire hate from everyone around you and not have it come back and bite you eventually (it might already have, you just don't know it)
Good god, I did not mean for OP to actually send this. This is 100% a joke. OP, happens to all of us every now and then, just ignore and realize you dodged a bad boss.
I actually once talked to a well-intentioned kid on a networking call who kept referring to me as "Mr. [last name]". It got so annoying so quick I had to tell him to cut it out and that no one does that lol
Sorry OP, you crossed paths with another hardo. I swear to God some 22 year olds are so f*cking weird. This kid isn't an MD, he's 22-24 and therefore still a KID.
If it brings you any solace, when I was trying to join my school's investment club, I shot out a generic email to like 4 different members. One girl got on the phone with me and then proceeded to grill me about why I should join the club like it was an IBDsuperday, and then proceeded to tell me how unprofessional it was that I emailed 4 STUDENTS the same email just adjusting for their names. Last I checked she worked in WM and I secured multiple IBD internships without any help from the club so I would say I came out on top.
Keep hustling and remember that some weirdos at boutiques aren't indicative of all bankers. Many of the boutique guys and girls I reached out to ended up being great and grabbed coffee with me even though I had no experience.
This is a random but potentially helpful data point but try reaching out to small boutiques in Denver specifically. I have never had a higher hit rate, with 50+% of the firms responding and multiple offering interviews despite cold outreach. Banks include GLC Advisors (really sharp guys), Quadriga (IIRC O&G focused), and CVA Advisors (may have rebranded under another name but pretty successful firm with a great culture of smart folks). All the Analysts I spoke to from these firms were super down to earth as well as intelligent and hardworking. Good luck in your hunt!
It’s been a few years since I was in school, but like you I tried to join some of these investment clubs, business fraternities, etc. Some of the kids I talked to - especially the ones who had IB/consulting offers - think they are just the hottest thing since sliced bread. They act like they are sitting on a throne in their marble towers while talking down to these 18 year old freshman. Completely unwarranted IMO and just straight up cringy.
The first investment club I joined booted m because I wasn’t a “culture fit,” the president believed I didn’t work hard enough to be in it. Fast forward three years I am the only kid from my school to go straight to the buy-side in like 5 years. The chick who kicked me out is in PWM.
Got rejected from my school's (semi-target) investment club twice and then stopped applying. Each year, I would go to a few of the recruiting events, talked to others who had applied / gotten to an interview round, and had friends review my application to join the club. Each year, I turned in my application (most important part of which is a stock pitch) and didn't get invited to an interview - both my stock pitches also turned out to be right and I made 1.5x and 2x respectively on each trade. When considering whether or not I wanted to apply for a 3rd time, some members talked down / basically were mansplaining to me some topic I forget about at some random club recruiting event. I'm a guy and don't really care about the mansplaining or whatever, what irked me was the talk down part when we are all students who haven't really worked a full-time job ever.
Fast forward ~4 years, now I'm an analyst at a MM PE firm, so I'd say I'm doing alright. The people who were in the club, as far as I'm aware, are doing fine just as fine too (IB, HF, PE). But I seriously thought I was "less than" because I wasn't in a "prestigious club" on campus. At the end of the day these clubs create exclusivity so they can feel good about themselves at the expense of others. And that email response is the sender's way of creating exclusivity which is only done so sender can feel good about him/herself...just my 2 cents
I have analyst / associate friends at multiple banks and many of them have said if you address them "Mr. Last Name" - they will not respond to you. This industry is so fucking confusing and contradictory sometimes. We need to put to together some "Generally Accepted Banking Principles"
you have to be Chairman of the FED level of banker to deserve a "Mr"...MAYBE. Even then prob be weird. CEOs / CFOs of multi billion revenue companies (that i worked at) dont require their employees to call them "Mr"
I wonder if he was a banker in the 90s, or earlier (or had bankers of that era among his early senior leadership).
While Gen Z nowadays might expect things to be quite familiar/casual; it's important to remember that previously in banking (e.g. 70s, 80s, 90s), there was often a certain strict formality (almost militant at times), as the norm of how seniors expected to be treated.
For example: Many things that nowadays are seen as normal, might have resulted in firing, back during my father's era (70s/80s/90s), or even during my early career.
I saw enough of it, during my lifetime/career, to say that it was often very different back then.
Another example: Watch the movie "Margin Call" (about the GFC), set around ~2008. Watch the Senior Partners meeting scene, and notice the obvious formality. (FYI: From what I remember, many other scenes were also quite accurate of that time).
I know times change, and I am not trying to necessarily advocate strict formality, but it might be helpful to understand the perspective, as possibly held by some seniors, still in banking today -- to understand their mindset, would help to avoid potential issues later on.
"Sir" tends to be well received, as a generic form of respectful address; if contacting/addressing a male, in a senior-level role.
I find that the casual use of "Sir" tends to be more common in addressing a senior, rather than "Mr. [Surname]" nowadays.
I hope this provides a bit of context.
Investor (30+ years); IB/RE/PE/Corp. Exp (MD level); currently, head of boutique private equity firm; principal of family office.
I really don't understand, what is the problem here? At least in Germany, it is completely normal to not consider someone's requests if they're being too casual. That's basic societal know-how, right? A certain level of casualness, of course, is possible further down the line (even then the practice of adressing my boss by his first name and Du still weirds me out a bit), but in the beginning? In an outreach? As a socially inferior (ie younger)? Are you kidding me, of course you have to garnish your email with every, every flourish of politeness you can find! Someone who's either too uninformed or reckless too care will never have a place in my team, we are in a client-centered business first and foremost. So yeah, maybe a bit harshly put by the MD, but at least here this would be a completely appropriate reaction.
Germany is much more formal in the business context. It creates this weird situation where the German colleagues use the formal address of Mr / Ms with the German clients while the English speaking colleagues use first names - and the client uses first names also when addressing the English speakers but not the German speakers.
Even weirder when you meet someone at an event, start chatting in English using first names amd then realise you are both German and unsure if you need to revert to the formal address.
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Lmao this can’t be real
Ignore, this is very unusual behaviour.
name and shame
Was it an MD?
If it is an analyst or associate, it is a bit harsh - unless he is from other side of the pond or something. But if it was a senior banker, I would understand.
This isn't normal in the UK.
Sincerely,
UK based banker
Haha, thanks for the insight.
lmao gtfo
definitely not western
Don't think it was the UK. They leave out the period in their "Mr"
serious SDE
Lol I don't think anyone wants to work for someone who structures their sentences like an asshole just to sound more dramatic anyway.
Guy is a schmuck and clearly does not get much respect from his peers, clients and counterparties if he's this fussed about a perceived lack of being put on a pedestal by a college kid in a cold email.
“Hey (first name),
Thanks for getting back to me and saving me the trouble of applying and having to ask about culture. I think your email summed this up for me and everything I would need to know. I wish whoever your firm hires the most luck in the world as you’re clearly going to make them need it.”
I know this is probably a joke but for the OP, don't send this (or anything really) as a reply. Just let it be and let the universe do its thing. This is not an industry where you can inspire hate from everyone around you and not have it come back and bite you eventually (it might already have, you just don't know it)
Good god, I did not mean for OP to actually send this. This is 100% a joke. OP, happens to all of us every now and then, just ignore and realize you dodged a bad boss.
OP, you HAVE TO use this
No deal flow energy
I actually once talked to a well-intentioned kid on a networking call who kept referring to me as "Mr. [last name]". It got so annoying so quick I had to tell him to cut it out and that no one does that lol
Nice of you to actually tell him. Guy probably stopped after that.
What alternative would you recommend then?
First name is fine
Same, I appreciated the earnestness but I had to tell him it wasn't necessary.
People who say “mr.” Are obnoxious. I hope this was the head of a group or something. Even for an MD this is strange
Sorry OP, you crossed paths with another hardo. I swear to God some 22 year olds are so f*cking weird. This kid isn't an MD, he's 22-24 and therefore still a KID.
If it brings you any solace, when I was trying to join my school's investment club, I shot out a generic email to like 4 different members. One girl got on the phone with me and then proceeded to grill me about why I should join the club like it was an IBD superday, and then proceeded to tell me how unprofessional it was that I emailed 4 STUDENTS the same email just adjusting for their names. Last I checked she worked in WM and I secured multiple IBD internships without any help from the club so I would say I came out on top.
Keep hustling and remember that some weirdos at boutiques aren't indicative of all bankers. Many of the boutique guys and girls I reached out to ended up being great and grabbed coffee with me even though I had no experience.
This is a random but potentially helpful data point but try reaching out to small boutiques in Denver specifically. I have never had a higher hit rate, with 50+% of the firms responding and multiple offering interviews despite cold outreach. Banks include GLC Advisors (really sharp guys), Quadriga (IIRC O&G focused), and CVA Advisors (may have rebranded under another name but pretty successful firm with a great culture of smart folks). All the Analysts I spoke to from these firms were super down to earth as well as intelligent and hardworking. Good luck in your hunt!
Your post brings back some of my cringy memories.
It’s been a few years since I was in school, but like you I tried to join some of these investment clubs, business fraternities, etc. Some of the kids I talked to - especially the ones who had IB/consulting offers - think they are just the hottest thing since sliced bread. They act like they are sitting on a throne in their marble towers while talking down to these 18 year old freshman. Completely unwarranted IMO and just straight up cringy.
Very, very true.
The first investment club I joined booted m because I wasn’t a “culture fit,” the president believed I didn’t work hard enough to be in it. Fast forward three years I am the only kid from my school to go straight to the buy-side in like 5 years. The chick who kicked me out is in PWM.
Got rejected from my school's (semi-target) investment club twice and then stopped applying. Each year, I would go to a few of the recruiting events, talked to others who had applied / gotten to an interview round, and had friends review my application to join the club. Each year, I turned in my application (most important part of which is a stock pitch) and didn't get invited to an interview - both my stock pitches also turned out to be right and I made 1.5x and 2x respectively on each trade. When considering whether or not I wanted to apply for a 3rd time, some members talked down / basically were mansplaining to me some topic I forget about at some random club recruiting event. I'm a guy and don't really care about the mansplaining or whatever, what irked me was the talk down part when we are all students who haven't really worked a full-time job ever.
Fast forward ~4 years, now I'm an analyst at a MM PE firm, so I'd say I'm doing alright. The people who were in the club, as far as I'm aware, are doing fine just as fine too (IB, HF, PE). But I seriously thought I was "less than" because I wasn't in a "prestigious club" on campus. At the end of the day these clubs create exclusivity so they can feel good about themselves at the expense of others. And that email response is the sender's way of creating exclusivity which is only done so sender can feel good about him/herself...just my 2 cents
I have analyst / associate friends at multiple banks and many of them have said if you address them "Mr. Last Name" - they will not respond to you. This industry is so fucking confusing and contradictory sometimes. We need to put to together some "Generally Accepted Banking Principles"
you have to be Chairman of the FED level of banker to deserve a "Mr"...MAYBE. Even then prob be weird. CEOs / CFOs of multi billion revenue companies (that i worked at) dont require their employees to call them "Mr"
He could probably use an intern to proofread his writing. Or just write things for him.
This guy is such a loser. If someone addressed me as “Mr.” I would think they’re some Indian bot asking me to kindly do the needful.
This guy totallly took his wife’s last name.
Lol this person needs to learn how to chatgpt
What no deals does to a mfer
I wonder if he was a banker in the 90s, or earlier (or had bankers of that era among his early senior leadership).
While Gen Z nowadays might expect things to be quite familiar/casual; it's important to remember that previously in banking (e.g. 70s, 80s, 90s), there was often a certain strict formality (almost militant at times), as the norm of how seniors expected to be treated.
For example: Many things that nowadays are seen as normal, might have resulted in firing, back during my father's era (70s/80s/90s), or even during my early career.
I saw enough of it, during my lifetime/career, to say that it was often very different back then.
Another example: Watch the movie "Margin Call" (about the GFC), set around ~2008. Watch the Senior Partners meeting scene, and notice the obvious formality. (FYI: From what I remember, many other scenes were also quite accurate of that time).
I know times change, and I am not trying to necessarily advocate strict formality, but it might be helpful to understand the perspective, as possibly held by some seniors, still in banking today -- to understand their mindset, would help to avoid potential issues later on.
"Sir" tends to be well received, as a generic form of respectful address; if contacting/addressing a male, in a senior-level role.
I find that the casual use of "Sir" tends to be more common in addressing a senior, rather than "Mr. [Surname]" nowadays.
I hope this provides a bit of context.
I really don't understand, what is the problem here? At least in Germany, it is completely normal to not consider someone's requests if they're being too casual. That's basic societal know-how, right? A certain level of casualness, of course, is possible further down the line (even then the practice of adressing my boss by his first name and Du still weirds me out a bit), but in the beginning? In an outreach? As a socially inferior (ie younger)? Are you kidding me, of course you have to garnish your email with every, every flourish of politeness you can find! Someone who's either too uninformed or reckless too care will never have a place in my team, we are in a client-centered business first and foremost. So yeah, maybe a bit harshly put by the MD, but at least here this would be a completely appropriate reaction.
Germany is much more formal in the business context. It creates this weird situation where the German colleagues use the formal address of Mr / Ms with the German clients while the English speaking colleagues use first names - and the client uses first names also when addressing the English speakers but not the German speakers.
Even weirder when you meet someone at an event, start chatting in English using first names amd then realise you are both German and unsure if you need to revert to the formal address.
Nobis impedit itaque qui dolore qui suscipit magnam est. Rerum enim aut sit doloremque sit qui in ut. Reprehenderit corrupti eveniet sed veniam quis suscipit. Nesciunt fuga est numquam.
Omnis qui pariatur expedita voluptatem qui modi. Natus nobis et magnam quia sit quasi. Fugiat est est qui culpa adipisci. Sint quae quaerat excepturi. Et et perspiciatis eos suscipit velit.
Est est aut doloremque non alias. Voluptatibus debitis non recusandae. Quo quia nobis est id saepe voluptatem.
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