few questions
For those already working full time both new and more experienced (in IB):
1) Are you constantly looking for a new job/opportunities, for example the same job but in another firm, even if you've already landed what you feel is a solid/sound job?
2) how are the turnovers in IB? I heard they're high but because of employees always searching for new opportunities, not lay offs -- true? false?
3) I heard some companies provide free dinners due to the hours being worked, is this true for most companies or just the prestigious ones for prestigious employees? -- What kind of food is it?
I've only met maybe a handful of people in IB who weren't miserable. That being said, I can flat out guarantee others on this site know 10x more than I do on the subject.
Lol that didn't address even one of my questions.
Maybe they're working the wrong job, I've read the stories of many who find IB interesting and engaging. But I appreciate your opinion, so thanks for commenting and offering it.
Totally depends. A lot of positions out of undergrad or MBA are positions that one enters with a definite timeline (a 2, maybe 3 year analyst program, and yes you can go straight to asssociate but let's just leave that to the side for generalization purposes) so if you're in a 2 year analyst program you may just stick with it unless a PE recruiter contacts you but you need to figure out what to do after 2-3 years regardless. If you're absolutely miserable, you may look for something else but even most simply plain old miserable analysts usually stick it out for 2 years just to get it on their resume. Once you're above post-mba associate it's an up or out situation typically so you may always keep an eye out for other possibilities. In PE if you are working at a firm and position that you love it's less common to want to leave but if you hit a ceiling (you're not going to make partner anytime soon because no one's leaving above you and the fund's not expanding by raising more money in the next fund for example) you may look to move to another fund, but in PE moving around a lot is less common. If you're a top guy at an IB (Director/MD) you may always be open to something else but you may not be actively looking. And then there are some guys, even at the higher levels, who don't want to do it anymore and look for corporate jobs, start ups, buying a bar in Antigua, etc.
Turnover's high because of all of the things in #1, but especially at the lower levels: analyst turnover is high because you can't be an analyst for 10 years, it's almost unheard of to stay at the same bank for your first 10 years even if you get promoted and most people, even if they stay in IB itself, go back and get an MBA.
Yes. Depending on the city, whatever food service delivery is available in that city, primarily Grub Hub/Seamless. It's a great way to pack on the pounds when you're stuck in an office for 80+ hours a week and all you have to look forward to is good tasting but bad for you restaurant food.
for 1) how would PE recruiters contact YOU? Wouldn't it be the other way around?
3) lol
So after about 3 years, is PE one of the best options for an IB analyst to move into? I've read so, that basically it's the same job with less hours and better pay. Is that the best direction to move into? Is that where most IB move to?
Thanks a lot for replying, both of you. Really informative.
PE's the best option for you if you like IB work in general and want to move to the principal/direct investing side of the business. VC work is best if you enjoy finding new tech co's to invest in and help to grow with an exit strategy in mind. Opening a Harley dealership is the best option if you like bikes and want to be around chicks with tattoos all the time. Whatever you enjoy doing the most and makes you happy is the best option.
"It's a great way to pack on the pounds when you're stuck in an office for 80+ hours a week and all you have to look forward to is good tasting but bad for you restaurant food."
We call it "deal gut".
1) Pre-MBA most people choose to leave, post-MBA more people are life-timers. As you surmise, this is due to both better opportunities or burn out. Occasionally you see someone go from shitty MM ibank pre-MBA to top bank Post-MBA, but in generally very few people who started as an analyst make a career out of it (every investment banker I've met who is in business school isn't going back). Banks are utilizing more analyst-to- associate (A2A) direct promotions the last few years (since MBA's like consulting and tech more nowadays so their having trouble recruiting), but it doesn't get utilized that much.
2) Aside from 08/09 during the financial crisis, I've never known an analyst to be fired or laid off during the 2 year analyst stint.
3) Every BB (and I'd assume most MM) provides dinner if you stay late enough,even if you are back office support. There's also paid black car service that starts sometime around 930pm.
PE is not the "best" option, just the most common - there really is no best option, it comes down to what your looking for.
PE is the most common because..
1) Its the most similar to IB 2) It pays a lot 3) It is structured similarly to IB 4) Has good exit opps
As you can see, the reason why PE is so popular for IB analysts is because it provides a lot of the same benefits that caused those analysts to pursue IB in the first place.
Principal or direct investing is PE. Just another way to say it. You are the principal in the transaction (really a financial sponsor but no need to nit-pick). IB, at least on the M&A side, is more or less brokering companies and you don't own the company.
I see, Dingdong, can you answer my other question real quick??
Wait. Are you saying that the diff between M&A and PE is that in PE you own the company?
I'm honestly asking and not being mean, but are you trolling here? If you're honestly asking the difference between M&A and PE you should take a look at some of the guides on here and other websites to get the basics.You'll learn a lot more and succinctly if you take some time to read those.
Honestly if you dont know the difference between IB and PE you need to spend 15-20 hours on this site reading through guides,threads, etc. before you post again.
Once you know what a DCF is, and the difference between M&A, Lev. Fin, DCM, ER, HF, AM , PE, VC, etc. then start asking more questions about exactly what you want to do.
Ouuch. Harsh. True though. Alright I shall try not to post again till I learn. To be honest though I may never post again then, once I learn everything I need to know! Maybe I'll still have some questions though.
You shouldn't feel like you can't post but your time will be better spent figuring out the basics then coming back with more specific questions. I'm guessing you're pretty young: before I was 20 or 21 I had very little idea what IB or PE was (although back then PE's were called corporate raiders or buyout artist and the Internet hardly existed so there was definitely nothing like WSO). Don't feel bad but instead of asking if PE is a good exit for IB, it will be good for you to know what IB is. Or if firms bring in dinner-that's actually the worst "perk" ever because it means you're staying at the office every night. You don't need to know every nuance of finance but your time will be better spent reading and figuring out basics in a format that is meant to convey that information rather than trying to figure out which post or thread is more factual than another.
I recall the 1990s too. Kids these days don't understand how horrific that decade was for men in their 20s. Women wore baggy clothes that hid their form.
thanks dingdong, i appreciate your kindness. I'm 21! lol.
It's a bad habit I have. I get excited about something, constantly skip the basics, the ABC's, and I start dreaming. It's the same reason I did bad in my first year of university (and a lot of other areas of my life)
But you're right. I need to learn about all this, I think it'd help a lot in my pursuit of a career in IB, even now as I search for an internship.
sigh - The truth is, I'm so afraid of having a mundane career, like comics and TV shows and movies make office jobs seem like, that I'm trying to convince myself that IB is the perfect job, and I'm doing that by glorifying it in my own mind by asking about perks, etc.
It all just seems so permanent. It feels like my dreams are finally coming to an end V_V. I suppose that's what being an adult is all about though.
I fear what I feel is the truth because I fear mediocrity, a mundane life -- even if it is difficult to achieve.
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