21 year old guy who wants dating advice

Hey all,

So I recently decided to start putting myself out there on dating apps and I've fortunately been doing well. However, I've noticed this pattern where I end up hooking up with a girl a few times and then she seems to lose interest. The most recent girl I was with always gave me "tests". For example, one night she was supposed to come over at 9pm and then last minute asked me "How bad I wanted to see her on a scale of 1-10?" She then elaborated by saying her friend needed her so I obviously played it cool and told her I have some work to do but I do wanna see her and asked if she could stay for an hour or so. She ended up staying the entire night lmao. 

My question for you more experienced monkeys out there is, "Will there ever be an end to these tests?" I know attractive women tend to play more games, etc. but I was just wondering how to stay smart when in the stage of hooking up prior to becoming exclusive. Essentially, how do I show the right amount of interest without scaring her off? Any advice would be much appreciated.

 
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Can confirm all of this. Remember when you were younger/virgin and inexperienced - that feeling youd get when you would meet a girl at a party or in class and develop a crush on her? Well when you get good at dating apps it basically numbs that feeling, and you quickly realize that every woman is basically the same and responds to the same stuff (contrary to what people might tell you). Maybe for actual relationships it's different - but hookups no way. 

What you said is accurate. For OP Id ask what you are looking for. Hookups then for sure but building a strong foundation for a relationship is tough on them. Everyone you are seeing is talking to someone else, as you likely will be too, and it becomes incredibly easy to lose interest. That said - it's a GREAT tool to get experience fast. You will take some L's, but you will also develop confidence, some game, and better understand what you want when the time comes to pursue something more serious

 
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Bro is allergic to paragraphs. 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

What about girls who would blow you off some days and they want to hook up a week later? This girl seems to be playing games saying she doesnt want to hook up with me saying “I sleep around too much” and “She was told not took hook up with me by her friends” when I brought her to a formal (didn’t wanna hu after but just made out). Asked her on a date and she wasn’t down it seemed. Went to the bar, bumped into her and hit her up that night and spent the night at hers but she was on her period. Back to being low response. Never really had this problem before.

 
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Arroz con Pollo, how do you hook up with girls after graduating university? I mean, in the "adult wold". It is harder/easier? Different game/approach? etc. What are your tips/advices?

 

Bro hooking up with chicks in NYC is like shooting fish in a barrel. Even with high standards there are many out there. 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

Awesome write-up. Can I follow up? Personally am pretty decent with getting a date & having decent conversation there. This next part is where I struggle (i.e. closing):

1) Usually first time I meet a girl is for drinks. How do you get a girl from the bar back to your place? What do you say? Plausible deniability is critical but I don't play any instruments / have any pets / etc. Any specificity you could add here would be awesome

2) Once back at your place, at what point do you make a move (before it becomes awkward)? IMO I always feel like I time this wrong. Any tips (what to talk about before making a move, etc)

 
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I have never once had the girl I am dating play any type of game, I think a lot of it comes from making it clear ahead of time you will not put up with it. The people I see who have relationships like that generally have weak guys who get pushed around by there girls and the girl becomes increasingly angry that she is dating a pushover. This is relationship advice though, for hooking up no the games will likely continue if that's the type of girl you are going for. 

 

What are you looking to get out of dating? The way you build your profile and interact with women will be different if you’re looking for a hook-up versus a relationship. What you’re looking for in a partner also matters.

Arroz con Pollo has obviously figured out what works for him to find girls to hook up with. I wouldn’t recommend this formula if you’re actually looking to find a long term partner.

Finally — the games depend on the types of girls more than anything else. I know women in their mid-30s who live/die by hard fast rules such as ‘never be available for the first date requested’ or ‘never double text’ … while others don’t care and are incredibly direct. As you build more experiences you’ll get better at estimating from a profile what type of person someone is before swiping. Obviously there is no way to know for sure, but you’ll get better at filtering out those who are unlikely to fit with what you’re looking for.

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Dude girls that play games are a huge red flag. Just hook up with girls that make it easy, biggggg time and headache saver. There are a lot of reasons why dating sucks and I could write about it for paragraphs, but I’d rather save myself (and you) the time. Eventually, you’ll get to MD level and chicks see that you’re doing well and will play less games, be more cooperative, etc. there’ll never be an end to these tests. If anything, they’ll be more sporadic and less annoying but they will never end and that’s just how women are wired

 
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You're a little younger than me, but as you go along you're get better how figuring out the chicks who are nuts and those who aren't. Some are good at hiding it for a while but it comes out. 

I'd say def stay on the apps, but also look else where too. As below, join some groups, maybe intramural sports, some kind of classes. Meet people organically, become friends, they introduce you to see people. Basically network. Apps are good if say on a Tuesday you get home late from work, but don't waste a friday night on them. 

 

Wasted my time dating.... its the same stuff over and over again. Work on yourself, start a side business, get new hobbies. If you're successful in your late 20s, early 30s... girls will be chasing you. 

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Honestly, this is why I just stopped going on those stupid dating apps. I don't care if I get a million monkey shits for this comment, because the guys my age (low 20s) will completely understand what I'm talking about - the disconnect between what women say they are looking for and who they actually go for. Time and time again, I have seen female friends, cousins, my own sister swipe on about 1 out of 20 guys (basically same acceptance rate as Harvard) and what do these 5% of guys invariably have in common? Tall (6'2+), white, muscular (like OP said, purposely wearing tight shirts and taking pics from certain camera angles), and showing off their "wealth" (aka daddies money). Of course, all traits/elements you want to look for in a future husband/father, and one that will guarantee a fruitful relationship, right?? Wrong.

Yet, there's a constant "women are wonderful effect" that has run rampant in society. Men are always told we're trash and we only care about looks and tits/ass blah blah blah. Fine. But how come women are never criticized when they pick the same D-bag guys time and time again and then act surprised when they land themselves in a toxic relationship or get cheated on? It's a complete joke. Where's the accountability? Men have to initiate everything, all women have to do is just choose; if they choose wrongly, why the hell do they keep complaining. I refuse to be part of that game. For all the guys that are my age and reading my post, just focus on yourself. No point in trying to actively date in your early 20s; the women are ridiculously shallow right now, and by the time they near 30, they'll get desperate anyway and want to settle. Like legit most of the women I see on bumble that are 21 - 23 have heavily filtered photos, work as baristas legit making like 12 bucks an hour, barely a High School degree, and their interests are "TikTok and Euphoria".

Right now, they just want to have fun or find a guy that'll pay for everything. I've watched one too many friends simp for girls and lose nearly everything in the process - no thanks man. Not me. 

 

These are some good points. What really sucks for me is that quality girls can hook up with a new D-bag guy every weekend without even thinking. As a man trying to win her over, you can make all the right moves, but her being an attractive woman makes the world her oyster, and yourself just a distraction. All I have left is to hope that new guy is a disrespectful douchebag and she learns her lesson. This one chick I was with once had the audacity to ask me if I was jealous she started seeing this other guy, and I said "not really, you were fun but I guess it ran its course." Although I really liked this girl I had to play it cool and couldn't show interest, which fucking sucks but you have to do it these days.

 

You’re being way too soft here. If Chad is flirting dozens of girls at the bar and takes a new one home every week, he’s not going to be a loyal guy looking for a relationship. Don’t give that girl the benefit of the doubt - anyone can see that Chad isn’t suitable for dating but that girl doesn’t want to make a trade off. In fact, that’s the main problem here. These girls have been spoiled their whole lives and have had very little adversity or even pressure to grind in a sweaty career (like a male) that when it comes to the dating market they expect to get everything they want and can’t even come to terms with the fact that a compromise may have to be made.

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I feel you on this one; dating apps have completely ruined everything. It's hard to not feel expendable as a man these days. The vast majority of women can literally open up Tinder or Bumble or whatever, swipe for a couple minutes, and find some guy who is taller, more attractive, richer, etc. than you. This is obviously not the case for us guys. So basically we're not only being compared to guys in our immediate social circle/neighborhood/community, we're being compared to guys on a national or even global scale. I have a female friend that is (no offense to her) incredibly average or maybe even below average, and the type of guys she regularly matches with is shocking to me: 6'4 rich businessman who seem to travel to a new country every week or go on a family skiing trip in Vail, and she doesn't even message these guys back. It's just crazy. 

 

I mostly avoid commenting in these threads bc they get so toxic, but I do think there some nuance here that younger monkeys would benefit from understanding.

Women do absolutely get shamed for getting the toxic guys. I don't know how many deep friendships and romantic relationships you've had with women, but they are vicious to each other for their "wrong" choices, you just don't hear about it unless you're one of the friends she complains to.

I agree with your sentiment that Western Society is largely pro-active in pumping up womens' egos, but it's also worth noting this happens in the same world where every image of a woman (and invariable 95% of girls over 10) has extreme editing and makeup applied. 

All in all, the world is more complicated than your think. I've had my phase in life where I chased tail and it was fun. But eventually you reach the point where it real excitement is in learning the different nuances of what makes a girl the person she is in the different situations she experiences.

Regardless of what you're looking for, it's most important to craft a story to who you are (the clothes, the stories you tell, the activities you do, your career, etc). Women are never drawn to a "nice guy", they're drawn to winners, men who everyone knows of by their unique identity and story. When you see that girl at the bar, she's rooting for you. She wants you to be that guy, the one she finds so interesting that she can talk about your amazing traits for hours with her girlfriends. Being good looking only gives her about 2 minutes of material to talk about

 

Sounds like you're chasing and attracting the wrong kind of girls. Look for nice girls who have their life together on the apps, not the 19 year old smokeshow... even if that means it's a solid, smart 7/10 over a 10/10 fashion major. If they play stupid games then just drop them, those girls are never going to date you they just like the attention. It's harder at 21 since most people in college are just interested in hooking up, but there are good girls out there

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Dating apps are rigged. I fit the stereotype that someone was complaining about in an earlier comment (tall athletic white guy), yet I still don't land absolutely stunning 10/10s on Hinge. For sure, I have dated hot girls from apps. But the drop-dead gorgeous girls you see at the bars, walking down the streets, wherever... They're not on hinge. Or if they have a profile, they basically never use it and will never actually meet a guy from there.

After reading this thread, I re-downloaded Hinge and replaced my pics with a male model from Instagram. The profile is very believable because I set my location to LA (lots of model/influencer types there), the guy has pics in LA, and I used some regular pics from the guy instead of just his modeling photo shoots. I was waiting for my phone to absolutely explode with notifications, yet nothing much has happened yet.

When I send messages to girls, I definitely get responses, but the app won't even show me the 10/10 girls who are kept away in the "Standouts" section. Despite the fact that "I" am a successful male model. I will give this a few days and report back. But as of right now, if you're holding out for some perfect girl - she doesn't exist (on Hinge).

 

Hinge is definitely rigged, mostly because they want you to pay for premium, or pay for standouts, and they show you a 100:1 ratio of randos to hot girls. if you live in NYC, set your location to 1 or 2 miles, scroll through all the duds, and eventually you will get to just about everyone. But Hinge is a business first, no surprise. Also you're not going to get many 10/10 girls online regardless

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1. I would say the purpose of apps/hinge is more to find someone you normally wouldn't run into, vs, "im desperate and will take anyone". So off of that, most women who are very attractive get approached all the time, what do they really need the app for?

2. There's a lot of data science of dating, some of what you said above. There's a disconnect between what people actually find attractive and what they go after, because you are judged by who your partner is. When people say "I out kicked my coverage" they're talking about looks for a reason and not personality. I listened to Freakomonics Radio I think, they talked about how you can effectively find someone you would really be compatible with even if they don't exactly hit all your metrics (height, weight, race, job). On the flip side, its harder because a lot more people are overweight. If you're a chubby chaser thats great, but it also narrows the field the other way. 

3. Dating has also come somewhat of a business/activity (mainly women). Meaning, I think there are some people who are looking for relationships, just ether fancy dinners or horror stories they can tell their friends. Then you have podcasts and shows that talk about "red flags" or stopping to date someone because they like ketchup or something (no ones perfect). Then you have shows like Sex and the city that I think a lot of women are trying to emulate, not saying guys don't do this ether, but I think sometimes women are looking for more of  story when they date, vs mundane met a guy and it worked out. Also, its probably one of those "if you do a bad job, they will tell 5 ppl, but if you do a good job they will tell 1", more horror divorce stories out there than good marriage stories.  

4. Also, in some ways, its a lot of work to date someone who is very attractive, and also very mentally taxing. They're not use to hearing "no", they've someone been catered to their whole life. I know people who have dated people significantly hotter then them, and it seems like more trouble than its worth sometimes. 

 
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