Any risk in ratting out a toxic and incompetent VP to your MD?
No idea how this person made VP. He’s a nightmare to work with, unreasonably demanding, very toxic and has no idea what he is doing.
Any downsides to telling the MD/Partner that this person needs to change his ways and is a pain in the behind to work with?
I worked for a colossal asshole incompetent fucking brain dead VP, and that same asshole laid me off during layoffs. I’d do it, tell your md that this dick brain isn’t training you/helping you, nor does he know what he’s doing.
Approach it from a standpoint on learning “what should I do here, I just want to learn protocols here?” Kinda thing.
Odds are the VP is taking cues form the MD as to how hard to push you. Also realize that unless they're a lateral, the MD chose for the VP to be promoted and has spent 10x the amount of time with that VP than you. Any complaint you have about the VP will eventually get back to them.
Best case scenario, the MD takes you seriously and scolds the VP, and the VP crushes you in your next review.
Getting into a fight with your boss never ends well. if you don't like working with the person, just focus on getting staffed with others instead of them.
My situation was with a VP who came as a lateral from a totally different industry as an interim vp. Worst boss ever.
Depending on the situation here. If you’re not being trained absolutely go and voice this to your MD. Your VP’s job is to get you up to speed as quick as possible. If he’s scolding you vs teaching you “hey this is how we do things here” then you have a shit vp and you should absolutely bring it up.
Good advice. Not in IB but this made me think about work situations of my own
Where is the associate in this situation?
Let's be clear, VPs do need to mentor but it is absolutely NOT their job to train you. That's on the associate.
My advice is you need to get this guy on side. Being a rat never works out well.
They aren't going to fire the VP over your complaint and the VP isn't stupid, he/she will work out that they are getting heat from the MD because of something you said. Which puts you in the firing line.
Realistically if it's this bad then you should be looking to lateral to somewhere less toxic.
Based off of OP’s post, it sounds like they don’t have an associate to work under, and they’re getting absolutely fucked in the asshole by their VP. Sounds like this kid took this job in a terrible market, hoping to get something to lateral to and is now paying the price under an incompetent VP for a bank hasn’t even hired an associate to train him. I’ve been there and you just need to leave. The other person said your VP’s job isn’t to train you but they do have a job to give you guidance on how to navigate these pitches. It’s not possible for you to learn correctly if you’re not working under an associate, I don’t care hardos give me monkey shit but you need a fucking associate.
No one’s disputing what’s fair. Many people have experienced such bosses / situations and can sympathise.
However, crying out about unfairness won’t change the reality of their situation. Rather than trying to be hardos, everyone here has good intentions in making OP realise the futility of focusing on the unfairness or worse, the potential damage to their career because retaliation and politics are still very, very real even in this era of wokeism. It will always be until IB / PE stops being a relationship game, which is never.
Their time is better spent upskilling to get out of a terrible situation.
The number of times I’ve seen a good senior in IB / PE, I can count on one hand… AN / ASO skill set you can definitely train on your own. OP will have to do that if they wants to stay in the industry, that’s just reality.
Yeah don’t do it. Also, you’re going to meet many more such people in your career if you stay in IB / PE. Try to find a way to deal with it. This is where your people skills are put to the test.
The first thing you should think about is what could’ve allowed such an incompetent person to be promoted to VP. And then just stop thinking of even reporting this guy.
Just try to find a way to get out from working with him. If you can’t, try to do smaller tasks / suck up to other senior folks (impt bcuz references and grapevine checks). If all else fails, just try to maintain a nice, sunny demeanour in front of other people and other teams until you can lateral / recruit out.
Also, analyst or even junior associate training in IB is really not rocket science. It’s totally possible to train yourself to the point that you can lateral out. I started my career in a similar situation and did it, many people I’ve met did the same.
Obviously in an ideal scenario you’d get staffed under good seniors, but guess what? Life sucks and is unfair. I’ve had terrible seniors / bosses multiple times - some are so bad that in these times I could’ve possibly sued them for what they did. Still always managed to exit in a way that got me job offers / referrals from other seniors / bosses that were decent (except for the last job, but there I instead got an offer to work directly for a billionaire - one of my colleagues was a smart rich kid who detested the same incompetent seniors and saw that I was being unfairly treated)
Wait till you transition out, and in the interview, don't hold back. I've seen it a lot lately after the bonus season, and it's amazing. Since it was a down year, they are looking to chop over weighted salaries they now deem not carriable, and a VP and MD have both been let go. Glorious.
Going against management never works out. In any industry, in any structure... you lose. Even if you are right and everyone knows it. The peons cannot be allowed to manage up. They'll crucify you and then some time later put the VP out to pasture or fail him upward somewhere else. Either way - you lose and you end up with some kind of situation that needs explaining to your next employer or a black mark on your internal records if they keep you around. Not worth it. Grin and bear it. The best revenge is success.
i white knuckled 12+ months with a toxic and disorganized VP during my Associate years. I never felt comfortable ratting them out or venting to an MD about the situation as I never felt i had the goodwill, reputation or rapport to do so (do you?) - i was relatively new to the bank and the only VP i ever worked with was this person. It ultimately took another person's complaint to start a dialogue about the VP with upper mgmt. Even then, I very diplomatically described my experience (slipping in impossible deadlines, verbal abuse, gaslighting type behaviour) and never said anything more than "i'm not sure i'm having a comparable experience to other Associates in the group". This was enough of a nod from mgmt to restructure things, separate me from the VP and this VP was ultimately placed into a desk COO role where they could work alone. I came out of that situation looking very good and i think people respected my grit in persevering through it. If i was you, tread lightly..
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