Feeling under the weather tonight, so I wanted to bring this topic up that has been on my mind lately. What are your takes on this- does dating get easier as you age for guys?
I've been told by many people that for a guy dating gets easier as you age (i.e. a 28 year old guy is on average more attractive than a 23 year old guy). I also see this firsthand with myself, as I was a virgin at 20 but regularly get dates now at 24. This is one thing I kind of do agree with the incel movement on.
I'm curious to hear from some more experienced guys here- anyone have a similar experience? Or do you disagree?
And why do you think this? Is is because girls are more willing to settle? Or that guys do get more attractive so they are more competitive in the dating market in their later 20s? Or is it that girls shift their standards as they get older (from the jock frat boy in college to a more stable man that can provide for them later on)?
I had a way easier time dating after ~23 - 24.
What do you think were the reasons for that?
Yes and to be clear not just with girls in their late 20s (otherwise that would be a useless fact)
What age did you experience this? I.e. when does this materialize? I feel like dating as a young 20s guy can be tough bc a lot of the top women my age chase slightly older guys (I don’t blame them- they’re just going for their best option).
What makes a 24 year old male more attractive for dating than a 22 year old?
Money, duh
Older -> more money -> easy dating
When I was a broke college student I was basically invisible to women. Now I have a salary they are suddenly interested in me.
Yeah late 20s in NYC was like shooting fish in a barrel. The sheer number of new people you meet there on a regular basis is mind blowing.
I'm debating moving to NYC and I'm 25. Turn 26 in Jan, is that too late to start afresh in NYC? I have a feeling people have their own friend groups so it's hard to break into them?
Nah, it is the perfect age for you. Networking is huge in NYC. You’ll form new friend groups easily.
Nope, always been pretty impossible for me, 24 right now
Yes. A 20 year old can realistically relate to 18-22 year-olds. A 30 year old can realistically relate to 23-40 year-olds. Older men have had more time to establish themselves and what they want. They also have had time to experience more things. Sure, at some point the natural physical attractiveness starts wearing off, but I'd say the balance of all the other things supercedes just physical attractiveness for a good while.
20 year olds are broke while people in their late 20s can have a lot of money if they are pursuing a career in Banking, Consulting or PE. That pretty much explains 90% of it.
Say you are 28-30 years old. Aside from likely having a higher paying job, are more people attracted to you as you get older because you’re more mature, or because you look older in general?
There is more to this answer than you typically will find in online circles, especially male dominated ones. The answer is, in general, yes. For a few reasons:
1. Women typically prefer dating older, men typically prefer dating younger. So if you are a 23 year old guy in a city like NYC or Chicago your dating market is tiny. It's basically other 23 and 22 year old women, assuming you arent going after college kids. Meanwhile, a 23 year old woman can date any guy really up to 30 or so
2. Men value women on looks which diminish with age, women place much more value on status, 'maturity', confidence, etc. which builds with age but looks still matter. A woman that takes care of herself will always be able to get attention from the opposite sex, but this will certainly peak 22-25 and slowly taper after that. A guy at this age is more likely trying to figure himself out and establish himself. People always think this refers just to money but it also refers to confidence. When I was 21 or 22 and dating I remember falling head over heels for girls quickly, probably texting too much, being a dork and bringing flowers on dates, being nervous escalating to intimacy, etc. With trial and error this improves over time. So in general a 30 year old who knows what he is doing will be much more attractive than a 24 year old who is less confident to a 24 year old woman. Of course the extra money helps
3. Women have a hard biological clock, men really dont. If a woman wants children or marriage and is entering late 20s then the way she will prioritize dating will likely adjust significantly. There is a lot more pressure to snag a guy in a long term relationship. This gives men a bit more power. I cant speak for what this looks like for dating in 40s and 50s, but I remember being single and dating quite a bit in 20s as you got closer to 30 you could 100% feel that dynamic shift
However, the above does NOT mean you can just sit on your ass as a guy and women will all come crawling to you at 35. If you are a guy who is struggling with women at 25 then you will also struggle at 35 unless you are actually addressing your shortcomings. When a lot of dudes talk about this they have this make believe revenge fantasy of 'and THEN I will be older and women will come crawling to me', it's not fully true. Also, men can have their own aging issues. If you go from full head of hair at 25 to balding or bald at 35 then you probably didn't peak physically later in life in terms of looks. If you are a guy you can get away with being broke more at 25 than 35. If you dont prioritize fitness like 90% of men then no, women will not come crawling to your dad bod ass at 35.
Basically, it's true that men can get better with age. But in general I would say the majority really dont. Lastly, the caliber of women who are available to you will diminish as you get older. Any woman who is remotely wife material (attractive, nice, feminine, smart, motherly, whatever) will be snagged up in a relationship by late 20s or 30. Most of the women remaining will be type A career types who are not afraid to beat you over the head with their feminist views and wear RBG clothing on a date. That, or they will be women who might be attractive but also clearly have some other issues. Similarly, a lot of women who are willing to date a guy 10+ years older also have some issues as well in my experience. This means you want to be at an age where you can date women 24-28 or so. IMO as a guy you can do this from like 30-36 pretty easily but closer you get to 40 the more your crowd will be the leftovers.
You DONT want to be the 40 year old at the bar trying to pick up chicks trust me. And the 40 year old guy with the 22 year old girl is mostly a myth unless you have serious $$$ and dont care about the mental capacity of your partner at all. Long story short the answer OP is 'yes, but...'
If you are Leo, Clooney or Bezos (but with actual good taste) you can get away with anything and the dating dynamics dont apply.
But that is something that isn't really obtainable for 99.9% of people, even very accomplished ones like those on this board. IMO, the male fantasy of being in your 40s and 50s and dating a 24 year old is mostly false. If you are a guy your apex value to date those women is most likely your early to mid 30s. Even if you are an executive, surgeon, MD, etc. basically a top 1% career in your 40s or 50s you arent going to have a chance with 25 year old women unless you have taken supreme care of yourself and live a very interesting lifestyle, at that point you are the 1% of the 1%. Younger women dont want wrinkly, pudgy, balding, boring guys regardless of how much money they make. For every George Clooney silver fox there are 100 other copeing rich but mentally disjointed losers.
But if you are 30-35 you still have a youthful look, can be fit, and absolutely run circles around men in their 20s
I heard an interesting theory that part of why he's dating these models for such a predictable time frame is he gets kickbacks from or some sort of benefit working with the modeling agencies these women are with. If he dates them during their prime years their value as a model goes up - he takes them to all the big premiers, the Met Gala, Oscars, etc. and they get a massive marketing boost being on his arm, people want to know who they are. Then once they hit 25 they've been established enough (or perhaps their prime value years have passed?) and so the agencies bring him their next big up and comer.
This is sort of true. I would say that guys have the ability not to decline as much in appeal because as women get older. they deprioritize physical appearance. However, when men get married, they tend to decline a lot unless he is very focused on his own physical appearance, which is not typical. The majority of guys age badly due to bad eating habits, drinking habits, etc. Women tend to have better lifestyles than guys. However, even the smallest decline in women is viewed negatively by guys because men are very focused on the appearance of women.
When you're young (high school and college), the popular men are always either rich or good looking or both. They're the ones who date around a lot.
For average looking men, mid-20s and later seems to be the best period because women don't see them as hookup material and women are also looking to settle down and start a family etc. So the decent looking and fairly-wealthy-with-good-trajectory man will have good luck dating in his mid-20s.
Although I do feel like these days women index a lot on looks even for marriage and LTRs. So if you're even average looking (like I am) you'll have a really tough time
Disagree a bit on your first line. If you look at the sexual preferences of women over time they actually change pretty dramatically, which just shows how beholden they are to status of the man at that specific time. For example:
High School - you say women care about men with money. In my experience this absolutely was not the case at all. Money and career aspirations dont really play a factor into who is desired or not. Women went after the highest status guys which were athletes, typically in the popular sports of football, baseball, and basketball. A guy could be a total dunce and drive a beaten down car but if he is the starting QB, pitcher, or point guard then he will have a pretty big market. A kid whose parents are rich and drives a BMW will still be perceived as a bit of a twerp unless he has other stuff like sports or looks going for him. Even if you are average looking as a guy, if you are a top athlete you will have your pick of women. This is probably the best example of how much women care about status because after high school a guy being really good at football or basketball basically means next to nothing to their dating value , unless they are good enough to play for a college or pro level
College - Assuming big state school money again doesn't matter 'that' much yet, nor does career options, or looks. Top guys on campus are still athletes but for large schools this is such a rarity that can focus on the group right below them, which for most state schools was probably guys in top tier fraternities. Yea, there is a bit of a money filter here to be able to be a Sigma Chi bro but if your parents are middle class and get in no one cares. Women want the guys that have access to the best parties, social experiences, friend groups, etc. A lot of these guys are career focused, sure, but again the reason why women are into them is their status not their looks or money. If you ever want to see completely average looking guys sort through 8+/10 women then just go look at greek life at an SEC school and have your mind blown. In fact, the term 'dad bod' was invented to describe southern fraternity men and womens attraction to them (it originated from an Odyssey article, a greek newspaper, go look it up). The woman in the article was writing about how dad bod men are more attractive than a six pack/toned body type, specifically with fraternity guys. The grand irony here is she was conflating her attraction to the status of the fraternity men with their looks, she wasnt attracted to a beer gut from drinking 5x days a week, but was instead attracted to the guys who live that lifestyle because it was fun to participate in. Even more reason to never trust what women say when it comes to the kind of men they are interested in - they even lie to themselves
20s and especially into 30s money, career, stability all take precedence. But its funny to see these quick shifts over time in terms of who women want just based on the social situations they find themselves in
Might be the case in American high schools, but I went to high school in one of (Singapore, UAE, India) to avoid doxxing myself.
The men who had the best dating lives in my high school were in one of the following categories ranked by success rates:
1. Wealthiest (and hence best looking because money does buy a healthier lifestyle and better looks) so good looks and wealth did the job since a lot of such peole in my grade never played for any school team and were even bottom of the class since they were all taking over their family businesses in their 20s
2. Average-to-good looking but superstar either academically (in this case not someone who is socially awkward) or activity-wise (played state and national level sports) which is similar to what you mentioned
3. Below-average looking but son of some celebrity or businessman (people who have their own Wikipedia pages even if they're not that big or successful so someone like a C-list actor)
Moving onto college in the USA, I personally saw a greater emphasis on looks, wealth and overall career trajectory. Men who were successful at my school fell into certain categories:
1. Very good looking (a broke bartender who looks like a model still fared well in the college dating scene)
2. In the top (3-4?) frats (I know of several women who turned down formal requests and never went to exchanges with mid and low tier frats), top school sports teams (again can't be a lower level league, has to be NCAA type teams)
3. Family wealth (for women who were into dining at fancy restaurants, bottle service at clubs, frequent cocktail parties with friends)
4. If the man was not anything from points 1-3, then overall life trajectory (someone with a 3.8 GPA and a full time offer at MBB vs say someone who has a 2.8 GPA and no full time offers) which again points to potential wealth
I had very little success in my teens with women but made up for it in my mid to late 20s. I think girls like older guys for various reasons. Money could be part of it but maturity is also a factor
I'm going to take the opposite side of this argument and say no.
For most men who don't end up in an urban area with a lot of young professionals and nightlife, the fun ends after college. For most men who never went to college, the fun ends after high school. WSO skews towards high earning NYC finance professionals, obviously they are going to be doing good in their late twenties and early thirties. The average American suburb or rural area has very little in the way of dating after college.
In my experience, dating did get easier as I got older. Confidence and life experience play a big role, and people tend to prioritize different things as they age. It's not a guarantee, but it can work in your favor.
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