Comments (22)

1mo 
Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎, what's your opinion? Comment below:

If they really want you, can't they afford the $15K pay difference? Maybe that is just their first offer to you and you can counter. 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

1mo 
msdixie, what's your opinion? Comment below:

that's true, and I could counter. And they could possibly match. 

But it's more so that I realize the title and job doesn't make it worth it. I think they oversold what the job actually was. 

Array
  • 1
1mo 
Anon1254, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Just frame it as you greatly appreciating the time and effort that they extended to you, but the offer - upon analysis - doesn't align with your current career goals. You shouldn't feel bad that you were interested - you didn't know that they were going to offer you a salary and title cut. With that new information, now you can make a decision. 
 

With that said, thank them and offer to stay in touch / maintain the relationship should things change on your end. 

Array

  • 4
1mo 
Pussy galore, what's your opinion? Comment below:

The advice above is wrong. Take the offer, forgo the 15k it's meaningless in the long run. Life is about respect and relationships and network, not about the work. You lose far more respect with people who go out on a limb for you and that will show up in the long run when you need a favor down the road with much more on the line

Learn More

300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses.

Learn more
Most Helpful
1mo 
eloquence, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Are you seriously telling him to take a job he 100% does not want just because someone in his network offered it to him? It sounds like a bait and switch, they were trying to get a highly qualified guy to do a junior role without being clear about that. This is more than the comp (which I agree is not a big deal) you shouldn't just hurt your career because someone in your network says you should

Array

  • 12
1mo 
Pussy galore, what's your opinion? Comment below:

He reconnected with the guy. He started the conversation. He was offereod a role he never applied for.  There was no bait and switch.

If a senior trader offers you a role you should take it, especially because you were the one out looking for a job to begin with. I guarantee you it will pay off.

I'm in commodities too and this has happened to me. It works if you trust the guy, plus you get in on the ground level of a firm that has a better risk reward payoff than your current one. 

1mo 
Anon1254, what's your opinion? Comment below:

How's my advice wrong? Just trying to understand your logic of "take a salary and title cut" because of a relationship. 

I have tons of relationships on the buy-side, some of which are extremely strong and longer in tenure than others. Does that mean  that I should accept an analyst title and a pay cut from one in spite of the fact I'm an PM? 

In addition - relationships are two ways. OP received an offer with a lower salary and title.  I assume the individual who extended OP the offer was very aware of this information. How's that respectful / conducive to OP's career growth? If the person extending the offer to OP truly valued the relationship, the offer would've encompassed a pay bump and a promotion in title. At the very least, if the team is fledgling in nature and they can't afford to pay OP much, economics / path to partnership should have been discussed, in addition to a title bump, since titles cost nothing. 

OP - often times, money talks and bullshit walks, especially in Finance. Pay close attention to what people do, instead of what they promise/say. 

Array

  • 9
1mo 
msdixie, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Lol, you are damn correct about money talking. This guy is a great, great dude. Doesn't mean I should make a life-altering decision just because of it. 

He was talking about how much they are growing, and how there's no red tape there, etc...and how my place was a sinking ship (albeit, some valid cultural stuff in there). 

Well, the offer took a week to arrive, and the $ is obviously less. That says something. 

And even though I believe they would be encouraging of my growth, it's very dangerous to accept a downwards move with the illusion of "working towards a trading role"

Array
  • 3
1mo 
gbk43, what's your opinion? Comment below:

It is not in your best interest to take this role. It does sound like a bait and switch situation, considering the person giving you the offer was knowingly trying to play up the new role as a means to convince you to explore it over your current position, but also knew the role was less appealing than advertised. It sounds like if you had known about the salary and title downgrade from the beginning, you would not have even taken a phone screen unless they are willing to negotiate. This is why salary transparency from the beginning is important. Best to give your friend a call or note to let him know this is not a good fit but stay on good terms

  • 6
1mo 
2rigged2fail, what's your opinion? Comment below:

fuck these guys are their cheeky offer... I'd rather not have people with weak offers in my network

  • 1
1mo 
Smoke Frog, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Just be polite and vague. Say that after speaking with your wife and family and really thinking about it, you're just not ready to make a switch at this time but will stay in touch.

The issue here I see is that this guy is supposed to be a solid contact for you, but mislead you on the job details AND the pay.

I'd be wary he might try to blow up your spot at your current place.

1mo 
w747, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I'd just tell the truth about why you're declining. Just think about how you say it. Truth and sticking to what you want, if respectful, and respectful of their time, will not harm the relationship.

1mo 
dv01toworst, what's your opinion? Comment below:

OP, did any of the conversation at all include what position they needed to fill, what the organization was lacking and how your skillset would solve their problem? You mentioned talking a lot about the firm, but not so much the specific position. Playing devil's advocate, is it possible the role is less of a bait and switch and more you being not being totally on top of the ball with what you wanted to do and how that was communicated to them?  You've mentioned a desire to become a trader, but how hard did you push that? Did you discuss this in more of a fleeting "this is what I'd like to do one day" sort of way, or did you have discussions with this firm about their trading capabilities, staffing needs and potential you could be a fit? If you didn't really push it hard, I'm not sure I can blame them for offering you what is essentially your current job with a little less pay. 

FWIW, I think you'll probably be able to get them to match on comp if you push for it. I don't really think the title difference is a big deal, your day to day responsibilities matter more. It'd be another story if they wanted to give you a lower title that also came with fewer duties than you currently handle. This is probably worth a second thought if your responsibilities will actually increase and you can be in a position to add more value to the firm and maybe see a pathway to running this specific function / group. If you are 100% entirely dead set on becoming a trader than this probably isn't for you and it's best to say thanks but no thanks. You should be honest about the trading thing and maybe these guys will offer to introduce you to one of their buddies somewhere that might have a need or offer you other guidance, maybe even something more junior at the new firm as you'd be learning. I don't think this will burn any bridges. 

  • 2
1mo 
rem29, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Say "No" + "thank you" to make respectful, (i.e., "No, thank you")

1mo 
marcellus_wallace, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Man, some people are really overthinking this. Happens a lot in the physical commodities space where someone is stuck between "scheduler and trader". Basically you do have a unique skillset but someone at the firm highlighted some weaknesses and they came back with what they view as a fair offer as "we are giving you a chance others would not". The real tough spot is you originally turned them down and when you came back to chat to them were not clear "what you wanted or needed". I am sure the first point of discussion was "oh this is the guy who said no last time…ohh look hes still scheduling…"

No one will care if you turn down the role if you explain simply this does not move you closer to a "trading role" which was your main goal. In the future would say to make it clear you would not consider a role with lower comp unless it gets you to trading (if that is your goal).

1mo 
rf949, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Dignissimos sunt vero est autem necessitatibus. Sit aut accusamus omnis voluptatum maiores. Qui ut sed quo. Error ducimus molestiae nihil quas. Accusamus quaerat omnis et blanditiis ut earum.

Start Discussion

Career Advancement Opportunities

January 2023 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres (+ +) 99.5%
  • Jefferies & Company (▽01) 99.1%
  • Lincoln International (▽01) 98.6%
  • Financial Technology Partners (▽01) 98.1%
  • William Blair (▲08) 97.7%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

January 2023 Investment Banking

  • Canaccord Genuity (▲04) 99.5%
  • William Blair (▲04) 99.0%
  • Lincoln International (▲09) 98.6%
  • Jefferies & Company (▲06) 98.1%
  • Financial Technology Partners (▲09) 97.6%

Professional Growth Opportunities

January 2023 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres (▲15) 99.5%
  • Financial Technology Partners (▲09) 99.1%
  • Lincoln International (= =) 98.6%
  • Jefferies & Company (▽03) 98.1%
  • William Blair (▲01) 97.7%

Total Avg Compensation

January 2023 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (6) $592
  • Vice President (23) $401
  • Associates (134) $264
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (9) $194
  • 2nd Year Analyst (80) $172
  • 1st Year Analyst (257) $171
  • Intern/Summer Associate (41) $167
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (185) $91