Is religion a psychological disorder?
Why do people still cling to archaic religious fairy tales even at this age? I find it hard to believe some of the things theists believe. Having smart people like scientists believe that wine is turned into blood, among other things, is very troubling. What will it take to slough off these beliefs? Is there hope that people will be disabused of these beliefs in the future?
Update: Michigan rep. Tim Walberg had this to say today on Climate Change: "As a Christian, I believe that there is a creator in God who is much bigger than us. And I'm confident that, if there's a real problem, he can take care of it."
Strong name to post content correlation, +1 SB for that alone.
Thanks for SB. Blessed is the hand that giveth, says the Lord.
Isn't this what fundamentalist religious people say? That to defy their teachings/beliefs, i.e. being homosexual is a psychological disorder, to foist (Sam Harris word) their ideology on others?
So aren't you doing exactly what fundamentalist religious people do, but under the guise of a "non-religion"?
Posting again to reply to the actual content of the post btw...
First off, i'm not teaching anything,i'm simply posing some questions. This notion that religion is sacrosanct even to smart people baffles me. Why people get to believe the ridiculous stuff religion teaches is beyond me.
Yeah, so beliefs in this case, but still similar to religious teachings. So you think that religion cannot be sacrosanct, but "non-religion" like you seem to ascribe to can be sacrosanct? Why do people have to believe things that Sam Harris teaches if they believe it is ridiculous? Why must they agree with him, wouldn't that be like a fundamentalist asking why people don't get to believe in the Bible?
You are probably going to say, "This is the most logical way of thinking blah blah blah." That is the exact same way that religious people think about it. It just makes sense to them and is a way of life.
As long as these religious people aren't actually hurting you, who cares if they pray 5 times a day to Allah or want to go to church every Sunday? It probably really isn't affecting your life in any meaningful way if you don't let it.
Also, I'm not trying to insult/offend you in anyway, this is an interesting conversation and I would like to hear your rebuttals/responses. Hopefully you can change my mind or improve my thinking on the subject :)
"So is it true that you killed your dog and then raped it's corpse?"
"Why the fuck would you say that?"
"I'm just askin the question man! No need to get offended!"
No, religion is a financial disorder. As in, the lack of wealth necessitates one to seek a "higher being" to validate their menial life, sins, and misfortunes. I thought this was quite obvious.
Do coffins have pockets?
Can't tell if you're trolling or retarded.
I swear I'm not SamHarris.
I'll give you the benefit of doubt that you're not this credulous.
There may be a persuasive argument against religion, but this certainly isn't it. Scientists who believe "wine is turned into blood" know they are actually practicing a religious rite, not a scientific experiment.
Who knows though. Maybe there really is a catholic hematologist in a lab somewhere trying to come up with a way to use a nice Pinot for blood transfusions.
Hope that's what they believe. Many believe different, transubstantiation.
Bloody hell, that's crazy!
Most things are not considered a disorder unless they interfere with someone's personal, social, or professional life.
That's what I want to impart. You are right with that!
As a practicing Orthodox Christian, I don't really see myself as being mentally ill. I haven't noticed a lot of religious people within the bank yet, but as mentioned before scientists and people of all kinds of noteworthy professions can be found practicing a religion of some sort.
It is not necessarily a crutch on which we rely when things go bad, rather a conviction of the idea that there is more to the world than we can readily perceive with our senses. Additionally, most religions prove to be a good guideline for life; not judging of others, having a good work-ethic, always be the best you can be for someone else etc.
Also to comment on your example: I believe in the fact that wine turns to blood during liturgy / mass. It is my choice to believe so, because I identify and can relate to the religion that I am practicing. Just like you are more prone to believe someone's words when you trust that person and you feel comfortable with that person. Still, it is your conscious choice to believe in it or not. Actually, when practiced for the right reasons, religion can be a great way to express one's identity and values.
@PianoMan @DKC" When one believes in something with no actual proof, don't you think that this gets in their way of reasoning ? Think about this, we get to question everything but no one has been curious enough to prove if Transubstantiation actually happens, double standards. Most scientists are nonbelievers btw. Also, you don't think you can be a good person sans religion?Have always felt that conscience is the guide, not laws.
That kind of depends on how you view the necessity to explain everything through reason. Actually, the concept of "transubstantiation" is a product of the Catholic Church trying to prove/explain through certain methods that the blood becomes wine. The Orthodox view the sacrament as a mystery, which cannot be explained (the term transubstantiation is alien to our tradition). Generally, we get to question everything but for some people not every question has to be answered. Of course there are also certain sects and denominations who take things too far and where the faithful are indoctrinated to believe everything blindly, which is not a healthy way to practice religion.
Anyone can be a good person of course, but every individual is also guided through different methods into becoming a good person (determined by culture, upbringing, religion, laws, conscience). The Bible actually says that a non-believer who has not heard about the Law will be judged according to his conscience.
EDIT: Of course I meant that Transubstantiation is method of explaining how the wine becomes blood, not the other way around lol.
I'm talking from a diagnostic point of view. Even if you exhibit many symptoms of bipolar disorder, drug addiction, depression, etc, if you can function fine in your social and professional life it really may not qualify as a psychological disorder. I think it's ridiculous to suggest, in general, that religious people aren't functioning well in this manner. You'd have to search hard for someone so zealous they can't function in society, and it would likely be those with cult involvement of some kind.
So wouldn't be believing there is no after-life and no higher power, like many atheists do, also be believing something without proof?
Unless there is some way to know what happens after you die, which I have no idea about and I assume know one else does either because well, you are dead after you die...
Also there are some parts of science, and especially prominent public "scientists" who behave in a cult like manner and essentially like religious fundamentalists.
Once again not trying to attack or insult, just would like to hear your responses.
Finally another Orthodox, hit me up brother!
There is quite literally zero distinction between what you're talking about and what someone on LSD would say. I hope you're not against drug legalization, too.
The difference of course being is that believing in a religion is a conscious choice, while being on LSD is forcing chemical reactions in your brain.
And no, I am in fact not against (soft)drug legalization.
I personally don't believe in transubstantiation. I'm not going to try and diminish someone's belief in it but it doesn't make sense to me. The language that Jesus uses is "this is my body...this is my blood." That's not transubstantiation, that's a metaphor. Transubstantiation, the changing of substance, would be "this becomes my body, becomes my blood." An example of actual transubstantiation would be Jesus turning water into wine, from H20 to something with a lot C's,H's, and O's. Jesus often spoke in metaphors and parables so it wouldn't be a surprise that he was doing that here.
All of this said, it doesn't really matter. Whether it's the literal or figurative Body and Blood, the point is that communion is the remembrance of the sacrifice that Jesus made for all that choose to believe.
"But if Christ has not been raised up, our preaching is certainly in vain, and your faith is also in vain. Moreover, we are also found to be false witnesses of God, because we have given witness against God by saying that he raised up the Christ, whom he did not raise up if the dead are really not to be raised up. For if the dead are not to be raised up, neither has Christ been raised up. Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you remain in your sins. Then also those who have fallen asleep in death in union with Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are to be pitied more than anyone." - 1 Corinthians 15:14-19
I've had enough experiences in my life where I can only chalk it up to God. I choose to put my faith in that belief and there I find peace and rest. I would like everyone to believe the same things as me because I've seen how it's changed my life, but that's not going happen. If I'm wrong, then as is written above, I and all Christ followers should be the most pitied for believing a lie. But if I'm not, and personal experience combined with historical/cultural/anthropological study of Jesus's time has lead me to believe that that I'm not, then my hope is secure.
Greg Marmalard Why did Jesus have to die? What could have been easier for God: just forgive or sacrifice his only son? Have had many experiences too, good and bad, but don't feel that a deity has anything to do with it. Have always wondered how a deity would have time to bless some people leaving others out(think the poor, sick).
That's a great question. Could a perfect God interact with imperfection and not be tainted? Perfection is 100%, 99.99999999%, but full 100.000000000000000000000%. In the Old Testament, God dwelled in the Holy of Holies where only specific priests could come in to perform sacrifices after ritual cleanings. The sacrifice, which there were tons of rules on, was sufficient enough to absolve the sins of the people but it had to be done often. Eventually Israel strayed and were exiled but not before God promised to send a Savior.
Fast forward to Jesus on the cross. I believe that Jesus had to die because only a truly perfect sacrifice could bridge the gap between God and man. He couldn't just forgive and make it all go away because man would just keep sinning and God would just keep forgiving and it'd be cheap and meaningless. There had to be a cost.
Think about this: If I punched you in the face, you'd probably punch me back. If I punched my boss in the face, I'd get fired. If I punched Trump in the face, I'd get sent to jail. If I punched the King of Saudi Arabia in the face, I'd probably get killed. That escalation is the order of consequence, the more powerful a person I sin against, the more severe my punishment is. So if I sin against the King of the Universe, then the punishment is eternal death. But God made a way out by sending the Perfect Sacrifice to take that eternal death and destroy it. He took on the rightful punishment and took it all to the grave being fully man. But also being fully God, the gap was closed and man could be seen as perfect, washed in the blood of Christ.
I'm not going to pretend that I can comprehend the mind of God, but I believe that bad things happen because this is a broken world in need of repair. But that doesn't mean that that brokenness can't be used to repair hearts.
So Jewish people are under psychological disorder? Jewish is based on religion and they are the most powerful group on Earth. I think it's a little ironic for someone like yourself who is working investment banking to say religion is psychological disorder when finance is one of jewish group's dominating field.
Oh and just for your information, lets look at founders of powerful investment banks. Goldman Sachs - Marcus Goldman, a jewish immigrant JP Morgan - Founder Junius Pierpont Morgan's mother was a family of most prominent reverend in America. Morgan Stanley - It's just a splin off from JP Morgan Citi - It's effectively established by Rockefeller who is also a very faithful Christian. Rothschild - founded by Mayer Rothschild also a Jewish Lazard - founded by three jewish Lazard brothers. List goes on and there are plenty of others not just in investment banking but in other field in finance.
Again, I think it's just ironic that you view religion as disorder when your working in finance.
While i love IB jobs and their concomitant benefits, its founders' beliefs is not something i buy. If what you said should hold true, everyone in USA should be Christian, its the dominating religion. Being popular or powerful doesn't always translate to being true.
At least have a respect for organizational values of the company who was generous enough to hire you for such a sought out job in investment banking.
How do you know what they actually believers?
Dude.... - J Pierpont Morgan was an active member in church on Sundays as well as donating tons of his money to churches. - Rockefeller's active participation in church activities are also very well known. - Rothschild was a major force in Zionism. In my memory House of Rothschild effectively financed founding modern Israel after World War. - Marcus Goldman grew up in typical jewish education taught by a rabbi in a synagogue. I am sure there are similar story here if digged deeper.
Calm down Berkowitz
I think generalizing all those who "follow" any sort of religion is ignorant. Not saying people who follow various religions on the extremes are not whacked in the head, because they are (i.e. Westboro Baptist Church, ISIS and all the others) I think there needs to be a modern take on religion in which some of the morals and values (give more take less, think of others and treat thy neighbor the way you wanted to be treated) or even the 10 commandments of Christianity still have some merit.... as they are just general guidelines (most of which are actual laws... don't kill, don't steal)
I fully respect the views of other religions, non-religions, non-believers etc. but even Lloyd Blankfein king of the Jews, and Goldman Sachs has pretty deep ties to religion and doesn't seem whacked..... I just think alternative views on the teachings of the various scriptures is needed
But what do i know, I am a banker and all we do is take from the poor and give to the rich
The definition for a psychological disorder is believing in something that is impossible, except in the case in which majority of the population believes it. This means that currently, no, religion is not a psychological disorder, but maybe in the future where majority of the world breaks away from religion, yes, then it would be.
Religion is a global economy.
We live in a world where believing in a higher power is considered a mental illness but a man believing he's a woman trapped in a man's body is perfectly normal.
Turns out that atheists are far more likely to have psychological disorders. Liberals too.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/S15327965PLI1303_04
Stolen from a news aggregation service, but those who attend religious services live longer and healthier lives.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/06/02/can-attending…
For the record, I'm a non-practicing theist who almost never attends church.
To the OP, here is a short list of the 20th century's officially atheist countries:
The Soviet Union People's Republic of China Cambodia (under Pol Pot)
Question: how many people did atheist communists murder in the 20th century? I'll help you out--somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 million people.
If religion is a psychological disorder, are atheists sociopaths?
Don't the people who died before 20th century matter? Remember the crusades?
The issue I have with the crusades is that they were more of an order from a nation state Catholic Church rather than Christianity. At that time the Catholic Church was much more of a political power than a church in the modern sense. Think about Europe as viewing what the pope said as the infallible word of God. It is a bit different than the modern church.
That being said many christians have done many fucked up things and those people are doing a major disservice to their belief than correcting/preventing the wrong of another.
Oh, so what exactly are you saying? Are you saying that atheists are equally capable of committing sociopathic/psychopathic atrocities? But I thought religious people alone had the psychological disorder...
(As an aside, the Crusades were largely a Christian response to the invasion of Europe and the Middle East by Muslims, but let's not let facts get in the way of your anti-Christian bigotry.)
100 million people murdered by atheists for an atheist ideology in the 20th century. 100 million people. Remember that next time you arrogantly look down your nose at religious people.
False equivalence. Atheists do not commit atrocities "in the name of atheism"; however, religious people often commit atrocities in the name of religion. Of course, that doesn't mean that there aren't atheists who have done bad things -- there obviously are; but correlation does not equal causation. It's not atheism that drove the people in those countries to do bad things; it was communism, which is analogous in many ways to religion.
This is patently, demonstrably, easily provable as false. During the Bolshevik, Maoist, and Pol Pot revolutions many religious people were specifically murdered for an atheist ideology called communism, not even mentioning the French Revolution.
You're way too smart to put forth this obvious bull crap.
Personally, I think that it's a psychological disorder to blindly accept that the five human senses are the complete extent of reality and the universe and then attack everyone who questions that assumption.
Hey guys after some deep research into this question, I have come up with the only true and universal answer.
Being NF is a psychological disorder, and being top frat is the only that that balances out all the NF'ers running around trying to destroy civilization as we know it. FratLord
It depends on individuals and it is cannot be concluded to a single point or opinion.
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