Israel-Hamas war death toll nears 1,300 as Gaza Strip is bombed and gun battles rage for a third day
Anyone keeping up with this?
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Yes. I am keeping up as up to date as I can. This is concerning by a large margin. Experts in the field are saying that it is possible it is Iranian-backed.
We are in a situation where we no longer have a Speaker, so Congressional support for any troops or funding for the war efforts are at a stand still. This is still in its early stages right now, but there's a possibility that things world wide will escalate as well.
Oh no...heavin forbid we can't fund a middle east war thousands of miles away that doesn't concern us.
What a mess!
Yes, Hezbollah is going to be a wildcard here
It's pretty hard to win here when one side doesn't care if it kills civilians or if the other side kills civilians on its side.
By far the worst attack on Israel in modern memory, potentially since the wars that broke out shortly after their founding. Prayers go out to Israel, I have friends in Tel Aviv and some of the bordering areas struck by rockets. Fog of war is insane right now so don't believe everything you see on social media folks.
Fuck Hamas. I don't want to see this escalate because if the IDF fully mobilizes either Palestinians just get massacred or we see Jordan, Hezbollah, and a bunch of others join in and this shit escalate. The fact this is going on at the same time as Ukraine has all the establishment war hawks on the Republican side just drooling with anticipation and these careless pro-Palestine leftists along the east coast celebrating attacks on Tel Aviv while standing in the streets of NYC/Boston certainly isn't helping public sentiment.
Nobody except the military contractors wins if the entire middle east plunges into war again. Sure wish we didn't leave behind 10s of billions in weapons during the Afghanistan debacle, lot of reports saying that the Taliban is also looking to get involved now. If we start seeing stories of "well these terrorists are well armed so we have no choice but to involve ourselves" we will know why that decision was made to begin with.
I read up on the history to an extent, but I am not familiar with what happened in Afghanistan.
At what point does the USA send boots on the ground?
I recall on almost every presidency that the USA and NATO allies stand behind Israel. Given what is going on in Ukraine, what resources do we have to spare?
Finally, if another conflict breaks out, how would the allied forces handle the situations?
To answer when US boots are on the ground, I would say only if Iran began offensive kinetic operations against Israel. Between where we are today and that happening however is a massive gray area of assisting with drone/air strikes and/or ISR capabilities and even that will likely be tied to the events of the next few days/weeks. Right now, there is general compassion for Israel on the international stage, but that would quickly change if the IDF chooses to fully level Gaza.
Aid to Israel is likely going to be limited in terms of military hardware because IDF conventional forces are more than capable of handling Hamas/Hezbollah. You aren't looking at going toe to toe with the sheer numbers of conventional forces in the Red army like in Ukraine.
Keep in mind, the US maintains pretty significant military presence in the middle east and typically rotates carrier battle groups into the area, so not a whole lot has been changed in terms of that at the moment.
Not a lot of history to read, it happened like 2 years ago.
Forbes - US military left behind ~$83 billion in equipment, much of it brand new guns/ammo/vehicles/training stuff
I pray we don't. The IDF is more than capable of a brutal retaliatory strike w/o US involvement beyond some $$$. Realistically they can and have previously fought & won multi-front wars with their own manpower. If Iran started mobilizing troops along w/ the other enemy countries/combatant groups I think the Neocons and Neolibs would both be riled up enough to potentially try and get Congress to recognize the conflict as an actual war (which they haven't done since WWII) so they can formally send troops.
We have an infinite money printer, especially for war-related expenses, so this isn't really a "concern" i.e. no one in govt. cares because they know the money will be sent. Without getting into a long list of grievances about Ukraine, if push really came to shove and the US had to pick 1 war to support it would be for Israel. They're an actual recognized ally and critical staging point for the middle east, which in terms of energy production and proliferation of the Petro Dollar (what keeps USD as the global reserve currency) is the most important place in the world.
Complete conjecture as to how it would be handled. Could be anything from basic military aid, to boots on the ground in support taking key targets, or just straight up vaporizing the Gaza Strip if they started hitting civilian targets (again). Impossible to tell w/ the current admin.
A true war--a total war--is required to achieve peace in this region. The Palestinian Authority must be totally defeated, totally annihilated. Because Israel continues to hold back on obliterating the enemy, enmity continues to rage for decades on end. Only a total surrender or total destruction of the PA will end this.
Agreed, libs giving ms
I believe genocide is bad and never an option that's on the table. In fact, pretty sure Israel secured its existence by explicitly telling everyone to never forget the last big one that was attempted by a global power. Maybe this is a controversial stance or maybe it's a braindead fence-sitter one, completely your call. I can understand your position, I will just never agree with it cuz muh principles.
This is such a laughably bad take. I mean, from front to back it displays such a shocking lack of knowledge, such a proud ignorance, that it could only come from someone on the far right.
First off, the Palestinian Authority has little or nothing to do with the present conflict, and hasn't had anything meaningful to do with violence in Israel/Palestine for decades - this is Hamas, almost certainly being materially backed by Iran, not the Palestinian Authority.
Second, part of the problem is the actions of Israel itself, which acts like an occupying colonial power and enforces a religiously-tinged version of second-hand citizenship on Palestinians (not to mention endemic violence), and then turns around and complains when it's the target of criticism or violence in turn. The Israeli government can't have that both ways, and unfortunately, is so committed to the concept of a religious state for Jews that it cannot turn to the only workable solution, which is inevitably a One State solution.
Third, and in a more tangential sense, it is always amazing seeing our right wing friends in America try to rationalize their unbelievably unethical hypocrisy. You look at Ukraine, which no one seems to want to support despite being the actual victim of a vicious assault and attempted genocide because... reasons, and then turn around and watch the same people advocate for Israel to massacre the Palestinians, who are by and large victims of a problem with no easy solution. Doesn't take much to see who you're supporting, Greg, and why. The jackbooted thugs seem to hold a particular appeal for you
True, this is the strategy of terrorist organizations, first commit unspeakable crimes and then hide behind women and children and ask libs for muh human rights, They've been doing this for decades in india, Only now has it stopped after actions taken by the government.
Also there is no way hamas had the capability to do this on their own, Definitely other middle eastern powers involved, I can see russia also being involved in this, But most doors point towards iran, this also stops the agreements that were going to be signed between israel and saudi arabia, many middle eastern powers didn't want that, It's hard to tell what the solution to this will be, You certainly cannot genocide all Palestinians, that's inhumane.I think GAZA is done for however and my heart goes out to all the innocent people who are going to face the consequences.
The first attacks by Hamas represented the largest loss of Jewish life in one day since the Holocaust. Proportionally, it would have been as if 9/11 was 33,000 dead. It's a big deal for Israel.
Yeah... with the announcement from this morning it's pretty clear, Bibi sees this as his big green light and is about to make the invasion of Fallujah look like a friendly visit during the holidays. And so the cycle will ramp...
of course dude. we even had a previous head of Mossad in to give his views today.
““I have directed the movement of the USS Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group to the Eastern Mediterranean,” Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said in an Oct. 8 statement.
As “the biggest, baddest warship,” as the Navy calls it, the Gerald R. Ford’s presence alone, in addition to the fleet of warships that travel with it, makes potential enemy combatants think twice before acting.”
https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article280300734…
“The goal is an endless war, not a successful war.”–Julian Assange
Isareali intelligence community is one of the best in the world and the cyber intelligence gathering abilities of 8200 are similar or on par with NSA.
This is a little tin foilish but was this the biggest modern intelligence failure of the west? Or was Israeli PM under particularly bad press and possibly wanted to get into war territory to drum up funds and nationalistic support. Wouldn’t be the first time a western head of state ignored the intelligence apparatus to fuel public sentiment and political gain.
Oil went crazy today, but frankly defense contractors are already pumping out ammunitions for Ukraine and profiting, do they have capacity for Israeli too?
After the last 4 years it takes a LOT of tin foil to seem unreasonable and so far all these seem like perfectly valid points.
I just hope the US doesn't get involved. I'm just sick and tired of constantly sending money and men over to all of these conflicts throughout the world. Already sent $150bl to Ukraine and fewer people want to buy US treasuries than ever before given our fiscal issues...the cracks are starting to show
If the conflict continues I’d be betting on US intervention more so than not. Israeli is a strategic stronghold in the Middle East for the US and is a critical defense partner. They export significant defense technology especially in the cyber space. Israeli is also responsible for military stabality in a few African nations.
Sure Ukraine has the political support of the world but Israeli represents to much strategic value imo.
Agree. The US will not be the first to intervene but if other countries in the region attack Israel, the US would likely get involved. Syria attacked Israel today and Israel responded. I am going to guess that most countries in the region will get involved and then the US will intervene
I just hate this take with my whole heart. The American Right has been poisoned by this Tucker Carlson horsesh*t that automatically opposes American presence or intervention in every overseas arena. It’s a poisonous, moronic ideology. The US should not be world police by default, but we should look at each individual case to determine if we should be involved and to what degree. This conflict has a non-zero chance of escalating into a regional war, which could materially impact energy prices in America and globally during a period of economic uncertainty and inflation. Shepherding this conflict is completely within the interests of the United States.
And why is this a valid conflict to intervene in, but Ukraine was not? All the same concerns and then some apply - more, in fact! Energy prices, commodity prices, the involvement of a nuclear-armed power, US treaty obligations... all of those exist and existed for Ukraine, too.
? The only time I've ever watched Tucker in my life is the interview he did w/ Donald Trump (and Tucker came across as a clown). No, the long history of US intervention and the 75% failure rate (Latin America, Middle East, Asia, etc) is what convinces me we should stay out these conflicts as much as possible. Intervention globally should happen only on a VERY selective base. So 100% I will never again vote for a president that lives in the 20th century era of US dominance (which is no longer the case from a relative basis) means we intervene anywhere and everywhere. The crappy part is we ruin the lives of tens / hundreds of millions people across the world, people I and most of America have 0 problems with. I just refuse to play along with the neocon FTW philosophy any longer because it hurts both us and the world for sub-average outcomes
Sidebar -- the ridiculous part of all this is we could have been energy independent right now and not dependent on Middle East if not for ludicrous policies in the past 3-4yrs...so we find ourselves in the same rabbit hole of relying on the ME
It’s been hard to look away this weekend when the atrocities are being filmed and uploaded to Twitter in real time. It’s clear that both the magnitude and manner of Hamas’s terrorist attacks on Israel has ultimately given Israel justification to resolutely eliminate Hamas in Gaza. I don’t think Israel is playing around this time, and it’s clear the United States is prepared to put our full support behind one of our closest allies. I would be extremely worried to be anywhere near Gaza for the next week while Israel responds.
I think part of the problem is that the American public is only watching this weekend. Most of the endemic violence, bigotry, and state-sponsored hatred that goes on in Palestine isn't reported on in Western media. Hamas has some legitimate grievances, and while violence is not the answer, in the absence of any other solution it becomes hard to be overly critical. What exactly are they supposed to do in the face of an occupying power that seems bent on the destruction of Palestine as a political or cultural entity?
Mind you, I'm not excoriating only Israel here, there are no innocents in this, but the knee-jerk reaction on this site, which is deeply imbued with the values of the millenarian right-wing (consciously or not) was always going to be unthinkingly pro-Israel, so just trying to leaven the conversation with the counterargument. Which I say as a pro-Israel, Jewish liberal.
I think you should look into the history of the terror groups that call Gaza home. There is a reason Egypt shut the border down long before Isreal did. These savages do not care for the lives of anyone let alone their "countrymen". If you see that graph floating around about the death differential between Palestinians and Isrealies it is very misleading mostly becuase most of the deaths of Palestinians in that graph where caused by Palestinians.
FAFO
Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Is this sad? Sure I guess. When you support terrorism for the sake of barbarism you don't get my sympathy.
There is nothing that Hamas stands to actually gain from this. This is Iran fucking around and using the lives of non Iranian citizens to play their games of geopolitics.
The only way to solve this is to get boots on the ground and root out and kill every single Hamas, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, DFPL, PLO, Harakat al-Sabireen, PIJ, PRC, PFLP, PFLP-GC, PLF and other terrorist in Gaza and the West Bank..... Every single one. After that Iran needs to be dealt with. This shit only exists because Iran likes to sit on their little mole hill and use the lives of other people to cause chaos around the region. They don't care about the goals of any of these other orgs.
This doesn't even begin to talk about the fact that most of the Arab world hates these terrorists more than Isreal does. Egypt shut downt the borders with Gaza long before Isreal did.
Biden is about to speak at 1pm - I wish I could watch it.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/
Is this thread being censored? I see almost nothing on the recent discussions about the Israel conflict??
On WSO, racist commentary is censored....why? Because, racism is wrong.
This thread should be allowed to be discussed for the same reason, violent anti-semiticism is wrong and genocide is wrong. To not let people discuss what is happening sides you with the terrorists.
They shadowbanned this and the other Israel thread, meaning it can’t be bumped anymore and just gets buried. Look at the time stamp - it says 20h instead of a few minutes.
Complete bullshit. In the words of Biden.....Full stop
Man am I glad Elon bought Twitter...at least one space where you don't get shadow-banned for talking about a pertinent topic because that goes against entrenched lib interests
WSO used to be another place like that on the internet but clearly no longer
Don't need to put on a tinfoil hat to know that something went horribly wrong. Intelligence agencies share information - and Israel is the biggest western ally as far as middle east goes.
There are thousands of intelligence officers working on, and analyzing middle eastern topics, every single day, spread over the various branches and countries. Military, police, and the list goes on - every western country keep a keen eye radical groups, and Hamas have members that live all over the world. If they were up to something on a scale like this, the HUMINT groups alone would know. And then you have the myriad of other sources and sensors. Every Israeli intelligence agency must have known, and so did (likely) most of their biggest allies. I have absolutely zero belief that Hamas managed to organize and execute something which required thousand soldiers, without it getting picked up. Zero.
So, with that in mind. Did Israel let the events happen? Or was it sheer incompetence, and failure after failure through all chains of command?
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