As I marveled at the recent and new salary bumps for large tier 1 big law firm associates, I also noticed the mass exodus of late 20's year old lawyers in my network that I went to undergrad with or have met through the years. All of them left to become in house counsel at medium sized companies. Below are the numbers that they are paying these kids, presumably one could be a year 1 as a 25 year old. What have you all heard of the grind and hours that comes with law and the hidden truth of the profession at the young levels?
$215K Salary Year 1
$225K Salary Year 2
$250 Salary Year 3
$285K Salary Year 4
$321K Salary Year 5
$350K Salary Year 6
$379K-385k+ Salary Year 7 and beyond before becoming a junior partner
The ones I've known from securities law definitely had to grind it out to almost IB hours for the first couple of years. Similar to the IB structure, doing all the grunt work and leaving the dealmaking and rainmaking to the partners they work for.
Agree with above, very similar hours to IB. Even as a partner you are still working extremely long hours in big law.
Don't forget too that these people have had to do law school for 3 years, both from $ outlay and opportunity cost. At least the IB analysts are only 22/23 and aren't carrying huge grad school loans.
We have two former big law attorneys at our small company. One being a former partner at a BigLaw firm. She said that many are leaving because the hours and demands are insane.
I never found out. All I know was that she stayed in BigLaw for 25 years before leaving to work with the current company (the one I work for). She said that the stress, hours, and endless need to bring in business were complete negatives in her eyes. She mentioned something interesting, saying that women of color stay until generally the end of their careers/lives, whereas Caucasian women have a 25-30% dropout of BigLaw.
The other biglaw attorney left because of family obligations, and went to biopharma because the hours were manageable.
This is truly depressing to read into.
What's the chances of making equity partner these days as a white/asian male? I was under the impression it's very difficult.
Back in IB, I thought the only worse job was working as a big law attorney. Similar hours but I'd much rather be dicking around in excel/ppt than turning the 30th NDA for some broad process.
Neither here nor there but my best lawyer friend left big law to dick around and then wound up at a small (but prominent) tort firm. We like to make fun of him for being an ambulance chaser but the role actually sounds kinda interesting - for one thing, he's actually seen the inside of a courtroom and the work he does is obviously meaningful for the clients.
lol i feel so bad everytime i send the lawyers to turn the 50th NDA while working with a difficult and stubborn client on this broad sell-side auction
only perk is for the prestige hardos lawyer carries more weight
That’s not entirely true, there are some well regarded firms doing high end tort work. Look at Silver, Golub and Teitell or Motley Rice, there’s plenty of T14 grads, the former even has a couple YLS alums.
"nine figures"
This is fascinating stuff to read, and as a person of color no high achieving minority children ever say "I want to be an investment banking analyst" "PE associate" or "equity analyst." It's always "my mom and dad want me to be a lawyer." The burnout has been real from my brief scroll through LinkedIn Connects.
Is the pay drop from Corporate Law to in house company counsel the same of a drop from IB Analyst to Corporate Development/Finance at a F500?
Depends.
Usually it’s not that severe at more established corporates. Legal tends to be one of the higher paid functions on average - very typical to see e.g. $200-300k for a Counsel seat. And +$50-100k for a Senior Counsel or AGC. This is only because the average in-house hire has 4-6+ years of legal practice behind them.
As with all things, at companies with higher pay scales (certain tech cos, certain finance firms etc) the legal function also gets paid more than the industry average. And of course at smaller companies in less litigious or transactional industries with lower margins they make less.
@T30Alumnus"
I have read a lot of your posts. I am very young and have lots of decisions to make and am heavily leaning towards law.
I fully agree if one has a finance/tech degree from a target school it is unwise to go to law, if just the potential for a semblance of WLB (see the pie eating metaphor).
However, what if this isn’t the case? What if we dicked around in HS and went to a state school and are awful at any advanced math, yet score in the mid/high 170s on the LSAT? Would a 75% scolarship to a T14 be an ‘acceptable’ choice?
I don’t know anything about an MBA, frankly.
I am unsure what alternatives you are recommending. It seems to me your main gripe with law is that it is “bitch work” but I have no ego and would scrub shit for 200k. I don’t have the intelligence for anything CS/math related. Finance just seems difficult to break into.
Quoting TLS
> Law school as a pure career/financial decision is worth it if:
> 1)You attend a T13,
Can do
> 2) You have the temperament for biglaw, and one of:
I’m not sure
> 3a) You get a substantial discount (i.e. merit scholarship); or
I believe so
> 3b) Your other options are truly mediocre and you'd never make six figures on your current trajectory
I also believe this is true.
I definitely agree TLS can be biased, and that I'm too young to know what I want.However I would argue against the notion that my s/o would give a shit about what my work consisted of.
I don't understand how it could be comparatively realistic to get into lucrative wealth management/sales? Especially from a state school.
Law is very straightforward if you are a good little LSAT monkey lol.
Sales does appeal to me as I havepretty good people skills. I'm just skeptical there is a realistic path for me to break into it, with comparative success to law.
If I have 50k debt, can tough out biglaw servitude, it seems to me like I’m in a good spot? In-house roles/ solo PI stuff both intrigue me in regards to transactional vs lit.
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