Obama inauguration
Am I the only sick and tired of the fanfare the man is getting? I dont blame him for wanting to be friendly with celebrities but are these celebrities incredibly stupid? Don't they realize this man is responsible for the death of hundreds of children in Pakistan and the murder of a American citizen?
I nearly got into with a colleague at work who was fawning over the FLOTUS (I fucking hate that acronym by the way) and how great she is. She seems like a great mother and they genuinely seem like a couple in love but lets not pretend that Obama has done any good in this country or abroad. Rant over.
http://static.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/fd/4b/fd4b7b_254821.jpg <dr. cox="" voice="">
bLAH BLAH blaH Blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah Blah blah blah
Blah blah blahOk, you don't like this president.
Cool story</dr.>
Funny, that's the same noise I hear when people try to convince me Obama is the best president since FDR, and if it weren't for those pesky Republicans the US would be the greatest country in the world again.
I get people on here have hit out quite regularly at Obama and my post probably stinks of the same. But seriously, I have a couple of questions.
1) Why are people like Swiss Beatz being given unfettered access to the most powerful man in the world? 2) How is it that these people, paragons of society and people we adore, refuse to question why the drone program, a legitimate terror tool, is being continued and oh-so secret? 3) Why is the inauguration of a President, on MLK day at that, scream after-Oscars party? </dr.>
This sort of reminds of the ER post earlier today. Obama brings no value but is GREAT at marketing.
The inauguration was as much a circus as he is a clown. Don't get me started on the wife either.
Didn't you guys just love the J. Crew Michelle was sportin'? She can relate to me, because her dress only cost $79.
Like who gives a flying fuck?
Meanwhile, Phil Mickelson pays 63% income taxes.
The guy's got an insane king complex about him. And Michelle? What the fuck does she even do?
The King complex would be cool if he uses for addressing issues in the world. Economic issues in the US will take time, but do people in Pakistan or Palestine have time, when their innocent children are being killed every day? I hate to harp on this topic but man, between work today and every paper I pick up, I dont need to see a man revered when he has done a lot wrong.
Lesser of two evils yes, but evil nonetheless.
FDR is a traitor to the US and should be remembered as such.
I avoid any visual, audio or written mention of that voting mistake. Makes me sick how this man taught Constitutional law, something he does nothing but utterly shit on.
I wish the House would simply spend the next 4 years passing impeachment measures over and over and over again.
These topics never fail.
I personally don't get the fanfare surrounding inauguration day. I dont like Beyonce because she's overrated, so this one was extra unappealing. I don't give a fuck what the FLOTUS was wearing. At the same time I wouldn't have sour grapes just because my candidate didn't win. I mean, who talks shit about the First Lady? People who need to grow up, that's who.
This post isnt advocating that Romney or any other Republican would be that much better but it pisses me off to see people on my Faceook page writing shit like 'ma maaan Obama' or a 'happy day for America', when serious questions need to be asked. Dude, you're from the UK, Obama is far from your 'maaan'.
I wasn't really talking about you the OP. And I agree with your view on the drone program. But I don't really get the "King complex" thing. His celebrity status is mostly not his fault in my opinion. And the First Lady doesn't do anything important, so while you have the right to dislike the Pres I don't see the point of trashing the First Lady.
Can't wait for 4 years to pass so Obama can blame Bush for us being $20T in debt. Gotta respect a man that believes people to have rights far beyond anything the Constitution allows for and steals from other people to fund them.
Republicans need to hold the line.
which is why i don't fund my 401k. just a matter of time before he dips into it and taxes will be higher by the time i retire.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/01/21/101_things_people_want…
What scares me is how much this clown is polarizing the country. The Missouri state legislature is actually considering a bill that would make it illegal for law enforcement officials to enforce Obama's new gun control executive orders. I hope that passes, because I think that is absolutely awesome. Some counties in Texas are looking at something similar.
But what scares me about this is that the guy is shitting on the Constitution so much that states are literally proposing bills that make it illegal to enforce his policies. The snowball effect if this happens is not something I want to think about. This clown needs to go. With all the successful people leaving France (I'm looking at you, Sarkozy), he should be able to find a nice house there pretty easily. I'll even pony up more taxes if we pay his shipping costs.
The Great Confiscator.
I also love how he demonizes the Republicans for not compromising (after he basically just ran over them his 1st two years), yet even after they allow taxes to rise on the ever dwindling number of people who actually pay anything he refuses to cut entitlements and wants even more in taxes.
This country is going to shit and honestly, we deserve it. Obama is simply the face of the metastatic cancer that is the hand out society. Elected by them, serving them and leader of all those who want to take from others what they cannot earn themselves.
Yeah, not his fault...
http://www.mediaite.com/online/obama-overtakes-reagan-as-most-televised…
"Barack and Michelle Obama have made a combined 195 television and movie appearances since entering the national spotlight in 2004, according to the Internet Movie Database (IMDB). That is 20 more appearances than the Reagans’ 175 self-credited media appearances over an 85-year span."
"The Clintons logged only 59 credits from 1988 to the end of Bill’s first term in 1996."
Obama is a self important clown. Elected because he reiterated words like a children's pull toy stuffed animal.
HOPE
CHANGE
PULL LEVER
YES WE CAN
FAIR SHARE
...well this was relevant.
They both act like they're royalty. The fact that you capitalized "First Lady" honestly says it all. "King Complex" refers to him not only shitting on the Constitution but forgetting that he is a CIVIL SERVANT of the people. Yes, I know it's commonly capitalized but who honestly recognizes shit like that with sincerity.
I really don't give too much of a shit about Mrs. Confiscator, but they hoopla surrounding her just shows how the media fawns over both of them. Her healthy food kick is fine, whatever. She pretty much just hangs out.
Obama's view on America and the Constitution is frightening. Him and FDR are two horrible Presidents in a pod.
There's a lot on this post that's probably easy to argue with, but I won't. I get the impression that the right leaning portion of America is basically going through the same type of existential crisis that the left leaning and 'moderate' voters were back in 2004/5. Something along the lines of "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING".
It will pass
...and a Republican will be back in office soon enough...and no, the country isn't going to vanish in a puff of smoke (OR DEBT), rest assured.
Personally, my political platform is "MAKE ME THE DICTATOR", so I'm not sure how that fits into things. Either party would do, as they both seem to have done a splendid job of creating a mess over the last 30 +/- years. Vote for me, I just want to run shit?
As for Obama, he pushed things back to what was traditionally the center in some things, but I think he's going to go too far. I don't forsee another hard right president being elected anytime soon though, the country basically needs a pragmatist, so whatever party can find the balls/brains to back such a candidate in 2016 will win, probably the GOP. As for the GOP in its present form, well, I'm just a pure hater: bunch of incompetent, bible humping, hyppocritical kleptocrats....and I'm rather enjoying watching the Newt Gingriches of the world writhe in agony as they quickly become irrelevant. The only thing worse than being demonized in politics is to become irrelevant. It's like moving from the A-list to doing kiddie movies. Just ask Cuba Gooding Jr or Emilio Estevez. Forget the money, the ego damage is hell. Might as well move to another country and start over.
I get the impression that lots of folks on this board lean right, if they aren't flat out right wing, and I get that. Despite all sarcasm on my end, I tend to vote for who I think is right for the country at a given time, but I'm also pretty honest about facing who's most likely going to win or lose an election. My dream job would have been a political analyst, but you can't have that job without being a partisan, so I've resigned myself to shooting from the sidelines and figuring out how the actions of the fools in Washington can become a profitable opportunity.
So what the hell is my point? I'm not sure I have one.
Vent, bitch, kick and scream, get it out of your system, but it won't change a damn thing. Get out the vote if it makes you feel better about life. If you get the chance to run for office, do it, and do it better than the jokers in DC.
Everyone gets pissed off when they watch politics, so in order to avoid becoming completely insane trying to understand the world, just figure out where your opportunity is and go with it. The only real option is to survive, regroup, and thrive. And maybe have a little fun before you get old and die. I hope that helps put things back into perspective.
And just in case you're inclined to take this post a little too literally, I refer you to the below signature...
No idea what you're talking about.
How about those bangs???!!!! Looking forward to seeing Queen M's further impact on fashion. I hope she's daring enough to showcase a pair of 10" lady gaga heels.
She looks like fucking sasquatch.
Surprised no one seems to give a shit about these kids being killed. I get we have problems here but seriously.
Worst thing about the First Lady is she tries so damn hard to fit in. Who does she need to impress? You're an educated, powerful woman. Screw these dicks who just want to latch on to some train for 'change'. Yeah. That happened.
WTF is this? Who gives a fuck? Why is this a story?
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/22/politics/michelle-obama-eye-roll/inde…
A British website but the headline says it all.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2266156/Obama-inauguration-2013…
Gained respect for people like Matt Damon and Denzel Washington, once big proponents of Obama but now disillusioned. Glad not everyone is blind.
Yeah dude. Liberals love Obama, while the press ignores how he deports more illegals than Bush, executes the global war on terror and runs up the debt for nothing special.
http://www.businessinsider.com/david-tepper-on-bloomberg-tv-2013-1
David Tepper says the country is on the verge of an explosion of greatness...but how can the be with a solialist anti-business megalomaniac dictator as president??? Oh, it must be all the job-creators succeeding in spite of Obama! Guys like Tepper are realists...all the stuff you guys complain about doesn't matter and Obama is actually pretty center...much better than extreme obstructionist republicans...and it's a great time to invest and make money, bottom line.
Another wonderful, hard hitting analysis. The equities market =/= the economy. And if Obama is "centrist" it is only because Republicans and Conservative Democrats force him to be.
I simply cannot understand someone in finance cheerleading Obama when he is going to leave office with at least $20T in debt, with a rising interest rate environment. Meanwhile Obama refuses to discuss spending cuts or entitlement reforms.
Just because low rates and QE are juicing the market doesn't mean the economy is doing fine.
Also, nothing like reading just the headline. Tepper is cheering the equities market, nothing else.
So let me get it right - the huge gains in REAL (well above inflation) terms in stocks is bc of QE/Fed policy, but when (bc surely you are right and things will fall apart) things go south it will be bc of Obama? Good logic. The US is doing fine and will keep improving. Why do you hate him so much?
The economy is just bumping alone with GDP hopefully at 3%. Hardly lighting the world on fire. We have companies using cash to pay down debt or buy back shares, nothing which is true growth. Companies have learned to do better with less, which is nice for profitability, but bad for workers and as an extension of this, consumers.
We have a rapidly growing level of debt, which is being services cheaply through artificially low rates. We are running over a Trillion dollar deficit and projected to keep doing so. We just added another major entitlement program, along with a multitude of taxes. Talking about spending cuts or entitlement reforms is taboo with this administration.
We have high unemployment, high under employment and a low labor participation rate. IF, and IF the economy does improve, the unemployment figure will only increase before it finally goes down, as more people re-enter the labor market.
IF the economy truly does turn around, which I hope it does, rates will have to increase which will cause a greater deficit as the interest we pay on an ever growing amount of debt marches upward, which will only cause the debt to increase more and more. The solution will be greater taxation across the board, which will simply hurt the economy in return.
QE is keeping rates low and inflating equity and commodity prices. This looks nice for the market, but not for businesses and end consumers. Margins are compressing causing further blood to be squeezed from a stone, either causing more lay offs or increasing prices, both of which causes the consumer to feel pain.
Housing looks to be finally stabilizing some. Still not great and not coming back to anywhere like it used to be. Credit scores are destroyed, bank lending standards have reverted back to normalcy and people are shell shocked. Another major driver of this economy, just limping along.
And what has Obama done? Added healthcare which requires everyone to pay into the system (I suppose it is good), but does nothing to ration health care and/or deal with the increasing cost of health care. A bad situation if I ever saw one.
So yes, the equities market rocking and rolling has nothing to do with Obama. If anything, it is an artificial boom, just like Greenspan with the housing market. Obama hasn't done anything to structurally fix things, instead he talks about spending more and taxing more, thereby ever increasing the cancer aka US Federal Government.
So keep cheering for the guy simply because the S&P is up YoY. I don't see more jobs, I don't see a better government, I don't see the economy being put on the right foot for the future. I see a guy who had an agenda day 1 and had no interest in adjusting that agenda regardless of what the situation called for. I see a guy who is only interested in increased the size and scope of government and taking more money from an ever dwindling group of people.
So yes, I hate Obama. Just as I hate all people who desire to slowly take the freedoms that so many died for. Just as I hate people who think they know how to live other peoples lives, to force their opinions on others, to promote a nanny state at the expense of someone else. Who have an idea on how to help others and finance that idea by taking from someone else. Thieves and despots, every last one of them.
You do realize that the right went absolutely fucking ape shit over the idea of rationing, right? Sarah Palin and her bullshit claim of "Death Panels" and what not. Not that Obama had any "death panels" in his bill anyway. But, let's not act like rationing was ever in the cards. It wasn't.
Healthcare reform is a net good. In fact, in the last two years, healthcare costs growth has slowed dramatically. Of course, the GOP will complain that healthcare costs haven't shrunk yet despite the fact that they'd have us repeal Obamacare and go back to the worthless system we had beforehand.
If we were smart, we'd move to a single payer system and pay even less for healthcare like the rest of the world, but that's not about to happen anytime soon.
1.) The top 10% own more wealth than at any point in the history of this country. The truly wealthy are doing better than ever before and paying a lower effective tax rate than ever before
2.) I'm not sure what you think Obama could've done when he got into office. If your answer is "eliminate a bunch of gov't agencies and lower taxes," then you don't hate Obama, you just don't like anyone in office who isn't extremely conservative.
3.) The structural impacts of policies from 1999 - 2008 don't get fixed overnight. Combined with offshoring, technology, automation, and companies' increased efficiency post-crisis, there just isn't a quick fix for our myriad problems.
4.) Btw, gov't employment has been shrinking, not growing. If something like financial regulation equates to "growing government" in your mind, then what would you propose instead?
C'mon man!
sheep will be sheep.
"to force their opinions on others"
Mwahahahahahahahahah
Side note - Presidents have always held inauguration parties. Shit, Andrew Jackson had the equivalent of a massive keg party at the White House with just about anyone invited.
1) People go nuts about rationing healthcare, yes. But it is necessary if you are going to have a national system. Hence why you shouldn't have one. You and I both know people are going to bitch about not getting Platinum level service, while paying bronze level pricing.
This is why the government should stay out of this shit. No one is ever happy. Just look at student loans.
2) Top 10% are doing well because they didn't over lever or have financial assets. The market is going up and they are doing well. Not sure how this is going to be changes. The bums always lose.
The middle class is doing poorly because housing was their single greatest "asset" and housing took a massive hit. It will slowly come back and when it does so will their paper wealth.
3) Obama could have removed useless restrictions. He could have cut taxes. He could have been pro-business. He could have cut the government, reduced expenses, fixed the budget.
He decided not to do that. I am against more spending, larger government and increased, useless regulations. AKA the Nanny State. So yes, I am against anyone and any party that promotes these things.
4) I agree with you. Hence why I think the country is not in good shape and won't be for a while. This is my argument that the stock market =/= the economy.
5) State government roles have been shrinking, but federal has been increasing. The states shrink out of necessity. States also have the right to grown and shrink. The Federal Government should be small and nimble, not large and all encompassing.
States > Federal
IMO, we should have a private system and an enhanced Medicare/caid system with a tiered service level. People who need free or cheap healthcare would get that exact level of service. Like Coach/Business/1st Class on a plane. Someone who is lower income and depends on my tax dollars should not get the level of service as I do. Their healthcare should be cheaper.
But a vote is a vote and someone who pays nothing and gets something can demand whatever they want as long as they can elect someone who will give it to them. Hence Obama.
Why is no.23 even happening?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/lyapalater/23-reasons-sasha-and-malia-stole-the…
I mean hey, I am not going to fault kids for being kids, but is it too much to expect teenage girls to show some respect for the office of the President? I mean Obama makes me sick, but I stood and clapped and showed him respect when he spoke at an event I attended last year.
The media just loves Obama.
I have no problem with the girls. None. What is he doing with Beyonce is strange and not really becoming of a man in his position. He should not be friends with them, its ridiculous. How does it look when they buy diamond encrusted barbies and $1m playsuites in the Barclays Center when people are losing their jobs? Obama is endorsing them in a way then.
I think this is the most petty political thread I have ever seen posted here.
I was going to type a bunch of shit out, but I frankly don't even care at this point. That, and I'm sick as a dog today. So, I'll leave you with this:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz2c7128uR1r0rq8lo1_500.jpg
If only swag would get us out of the mess we are in.
And I fail to see how this is a petty thread. I could careless about his dis respective kids or his wife making style points instead of respecting something that great men such as Washington, Lincoln and GW Bush once held office in.
But yeah, sick bangs and heee heee haa haa that your kids are texting during an inaugural speech. Then again I can't blame them. I didn't even watch the shit so I can imagine how bored they must have been listing to Obama prattle on about rights that he thinks people should have, which they really don't.
lolwut? You trolling?
Also, didn't Bush throw a massive inauguration party the second time around while the Iraq War was starting to shit the bed?
The fact that you give two shits about this whole thing simply confirms it's pettiness. Not to mention the irony of you all of a sudden holding reverence for the office of the president. What a fucking joke.
All of a sudden? As someone who is an avid reader of American history and at one time wanted to be a history professor, I think it is safe to say that my reverence isn't sudden.
And we are having a discussion on a topic. It isn't petty, it is our economy and future.
Which toolbox threw shit on everyone? Look I dont have a problem with Obama prior to his reign (I voted for him the first time, didnt vote the second). I agree with most of what the King said in the sense of the issues facing us but I find it hard to stomach the media covering him with glory and his being lionized, whilst celebrities hanging on his jock. Lets face facts, he's killed tons of innocent children. Why is this not a bigger issue?
Everyone loves the drone program because it keeps the war as far away from us as possible. We like fighting wars but we hate being involved in any way. And honestly most Americans (thanks to the media) just see little Arab children in Afghanistan/Yemen, etc.as future terrorists. Just like they see kids in Chicago as future hoodlums/welfare leeches etc. But Newtown is a tragedy covered world wide. Nobody cares when things go according to plan, even in the plan is horrifying. I can't believe I just quoted Joker from The Dark Knight, but it's true.
so much for wso monitoring monkey shit abuse.
Agreed on most points by TNA here.
Would you agree with this? "Any self-respecting individual from an immigrant background who's worked hard for his money and success should not agree with this Nanny/Entitlement State."
1) I will discuss anything I desire.
2) The media going bonkers over his kids fucking around with Iphones while the President is being sworn in is ridiculous. Show some respect.
I was discussing the economy pretty much throughout this thread. I felt the desire to comment on the inauguration which is absolutely political when the President gives a speech on what he thinks rights should be vs. what they are constitutionally.
Furthermore, you are the one pulling this conversation off topic. If you think it is silly, fine, by all means don't comment or post. To try and admonish me for a brief digress is annoying. The bulk of my discussion has been related to the horrible job (IMO) Obama is doing.
Watch out guys. We have the sworn protector of the Presidents kids rolling up into the thread. If I did 1/10th what they did in Church or anywhere else I would have been slapped in the back of the head. I suppose fucking around on your phone while the most powerful man in the world is being sworn in is all fun and games.
Kids today. JEEEEEZZZEE. GARRRR, get me ma prune juice
...you go to church?
Went dog, went.
'Pay your fair share rich, and watch my wife parade around in a coat that costs 1/10th of the median American household income.' Getting pretty tired of this do as I say not as I do shit.
It was in response to someone saying it isn't Obama's fault he is a celebrity.
But by all means, continue to fail at making your point.
it troubles me that ppl assume you're either left or right. for example, when i tell ppl i didn't vote for obama they then ask why i would vote for romney. fact is i voted for neither. i voted libertarian. this is where i find the flaw in other posters that tna is right wing. his views sound more libertarian to me. anyways, not looking forward to the next 4 years under this guy. sure there have been bad presidents but this dictator is seriously fking up ppls lives.
Ant isn't a libertarian. He is a Republican. I don't think he would even tell you otherwise.
I am a libertarian. I believe in freedom and limited government. Essentially what Republicans are, minus the religious element. Since I really don't give a shit about social issues the religious nuts don't bother me.
Ultimately, I am anti Democrat. I simply cannot support a party that at every turn wants to increase taxes and have the government swoop in and take care of peoples responsibilities. Cut taxes, cut spending, reduce the size of government. I believe in the preeminence of private property rights, of the Constitution and of people being responsible for themselves.
I want to eliminate all tax deductions and have a simple, progressive tax structure with more people paying into it.
And you are correct. I am right wing. Because right wing is better than wrong wing. Limited government is the absolute, correct answer. Anything beyond that is incorrect. The form of government that Obama supports and promotes is wrong and anti American.
I could be misremembering, but I do believe you take a very interventionist stance to foreign policy, which doesn't seem libertarian to me.
I think you and I tend to find common ground when it comes some social issues, simplified taxes and government responsibility. I just happen to live in the real world, where strident absolutism is not only ineffective, but also harmful.
I don't have an interventionist policy. I simply believe in might makes right and the USA should do whatever is necessary to ensure our dominance.
We are the shittiest imperial power in the history of the world. If we are not going to truly act imperial we should just stay home. I think we should have stayed out of WWII also so I am pretty non intervention.
And I also agree with you that my ideals and policies will never be adopted. Hence why I simply do not care anymore and advocate doing anything possible to pay as little to this confiscating government and to just take care of yourself and family. The rats will drown when the ship sinks, no need to try and save people who don't want to be saved.
Let them eat cake.
And FYI, Obama's inauguration speech was a sickening diatribe on his destructive form of government.
I'd have more respect for him if he would simply say what he truly means. That the government knows what is best, the government will take from people what it wants and he, in his infinite wisdom, will eliminate "unneeded" things such as the 2nd amendment and others.
Obama sees the Constitution as a road block, not as a guiding principal. The Constitution should be revered and respect like the 10 Commandments, handed down by God to guide the USA.
The only thing that I have to add is that the 10 Commandments should not be revered and can easily be improved upon. Let's not insult our Constitution that way, TNA!
Oh you know what I mean lol.
End of the day you cannot have liberty without responsibility. And you cannot have responsibility when you have a government that is eager to expand and listen to the wants of people. Once the government starts stepping in and saving people from themselves liberty must necessarily die.
Haha I'm just lightening up the thread.
I think the one thing we can all agree on is that people don't really want to be free. I mean, sure, some people do. But the people who really want freedom are few and far between. Most people just say they want it while taking all the handouts they can get. Freedom in the abstract is very attractive, but the reality of freedom truly frightens most people.
Let's made a post about the President every week. They're always so constructive.
If you hate Obama and the gov't so much, my best suggestion to you is leave....adios, bye bye, sayonara. If you cannot face reality that this country is moving away from the failed (especially social) conservative policies, you are deceiving yourself. We can debate until we're blue in a face about what's "right" but the direction is clear. So if it's so frightening to you, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Ill keep paying my taxes like a sheep and enjoying the great life this country has and will clearly continue to allow me to live.
Not sure what reality you are talking about or how this discussion really has anything to do about social issues. A quick glance above clearly shows how I could care less about social issues as this discussion has focused on economic and liberty issues.
I prefer my option. Minimize what I pay in, maximize what I take out.
Always love when someone disagrees with someone else the retort is always to simply leave. Especially when what I am espousing is Constitutionally supported and from the looks of how this country has gone down the tubes since Roosevelt rolled out his vision of government, economically supported also.
PS I am glad you enjoy paying taxes because you are going to have to pay a whole hell of a lot more in the future.
The country has gone down the tubes since FDR.
We've had a lot of great presidents do some great things, but I think it's been downhill since the turn of the 20th century. Not because people didn't care or didn't try to get things right, but because the government's been constantly building up.
This is America. You can either like it...or you can git out!
Who is throwing all this shit in this damn thread. Jesus guys.
I am all for social programs, but the ultimate issue is someone has to pay for it. And as we layer on more and more, and have less and less pay, the cost goes up.
I just don't see a fix and when I am demonized for the industry I work in and the salary I make, all the while paying for all of these programs and expecting to pay for more (from both the state, federal and city) I simply check out. Its the difference from being asked to help out to being forced to help out.
All I know is eventually we will run out of money. Tax revenue ebbs and flows and I don't see out debt being paid down anytime soon. We cut defense, which we will have to, and the stick we use to beat people into buying our funny money goes away. We can't raise taxes enough to bridge the gap and the economy can't roar back fast enough to bring in enough money to offset this.
I've got this theory that our particular federal government doesn't work because it is so far removed from the majority of the country geographically and because of scale. Do you think we could have these social programs on a state-by-state basis where that state is capable of reacting to the needs of its citizens AND where it's citizens can hold their politicians more accountable/in-check?
Instinctively I would want to say you could have a state by state system, with a government fall back, but that would just provide an incentive for some states to over spend.
The whole reason why you have a limited Federal government is exactly what you mention. It is immobile, far away, out of touch. States and cities know what their voters want and can react more quickly. The Fed is responsible for things the states cannot do, like go to war, negotiate treaties, interstate roads, etc.
I mean think about it. New York State has a progressive state income tax, up to 8%. We have a Federal progressive system up to what, 39% now? How the hell is the Federal government nearly 5x more expensive when you get the majority of your benefit at the state level?
We spend $100B a year on the Dept of Education, which doesn't educate anyone. We spend ~$750B on defense, per year, when are at no risk. We have a national pension system which was originally just supposed to be for infirm and widowed people. Now it is for everyone and it is impossible to touch.
Means test SS and increase the age to retire. If you want to retire 5 years before SS kicks in, that is on you.
Have health insurance for the poor and for kids. Have a temporary, cheap option for people transitioning between jobs. But Obamacare does nothing but add people to the healthcare rolls without focusing on the cost side of things. Ration it.
Shut government agencies. Cut back funding. Cut spending drastically. People will feel pain, just like a baby cries when you take the bottle away. But things will sort itself out.
And godbless people who want to help others. My issues with liberals is that have this charity in mind and then use the government as their arm to take money from me to fund it. And when I bitch they don't listen to me, just call me heartless or an evil conservative. Sorry, but I have a right to my money and my property. I don't tell others how to spend money, don't tell me.
I know your positions, and I respect them because you're fighting for what you think is best for this country. That's the same reason I hold MOST Republicans and Democrats in high regard: both sides of the fence really do care. That said, I was hoping we could turn this into a discussion on HOW we can get the Democrats and Republicans to work together instead of constantly fighting each other.
There are a lot of really fucking smart people on this board, so I guess my question is why can't we fucking find a way to work together? If anybody has the intelligence to do it, we should.
How? Eliminate elections. As long as you have people who will win and lose depending on what is cut or spent you will have politicians catering to them.
Democracy depends on an educated voting public with skin in the game. We have neither at this point.
Nobody ever takes the stance that we can actually do this in a good way on the state level. Nobody says that all the states with a majority in favor of universal health care could create a coalition instead of taking it to the federal level. Nobody is offering anything but an argument against the other side instead of figuring out a way to work with them. And I swear if anyone tells me that any of our recent Presidents have, they can go screw themselves.
Frankly, I'm just fucking tired man. I see a lot of good people fighting each other when they could actually be accomplishing something. Somehow I got back to being an idealist, being a realist weighed too heavily on me.
I mean a couple states, notably Massachusetts, did healthcare before Obama. I'd imagine if Mass was a utopia that people would flock to it.
End of the day it is pointless to care. Educated and well earning are a minority in this country. I am just interested in maximizing my own gain. This country stopped functioning as a melting pot a long time ago. I don't see fellow Americans, I see people with their own agenda trying to get theirs. Good, cause that is how I see myself.
We are discussing trying to help people who don't want our help. Let them be. People want to eat Doritos and watch Honey Boo Boo. We're discussing economics and nuances with unemployment and 95% of Americans don't even know what BLS stands for. It's like trying to explain St. Thomas Aquinas to Forest Gump.
I'd rather be a dissatisfied human than a satisfied pig. Regretfully this is not the commonly held view.
durrr BLS = Big Lettuce Salad? You some kinda homo son? I don't eat vegetables. You can git out...
::watches honey boo boo and eats a giant bag of doritos::
We are putting all the blame on the Presidents. But in reality, it is the stupid people that have caused this nation to become the way it is today. Some Presidents just take advantage of their stupidity.
Can't win? Cheat!
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/republican-electo…
Cough, scumbags, cough
This is the exact thing the Democrats tried to do after the 2000 election. I agree that this is the way it should be, but now the "small government party" wants the federal government to take action? Bullshit, it's up to the individual states to decide how they vote for President.
Not sure how it is cheating if the law allows it. Kind of like complaining about people taking advantage of tax laws to minimize how much they pay.
And I don't understand why Democrats cheer their electorate power so much. Not sure what Republicans could do besides this. Maybe if they just started offering free shit they could get some votes. Hispanics don't vote Republican because they can't under stand being against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION =/= being against legal immigration. But then again, supporting people because of the color of their skin is only racist when whites do it.
Real hard to beat the party of freebies unless you start giving out shit also. Oh, and FYI Democrats. Your party of social progress is elected and put in power by people who could give a shit. Go poll African Americans and Hispanics, your party base, on how they feel about gay marriage or other liberal causes.
No one gives a shit about social issues when they are out of work, poor or starving. And I will tell you what. Democrats keep spending money they don't have, pushing for taxes and more regulation and you will see more poverty and more debt, a receipt for disaster. Then we will see how much people give a shit about social issues.
It's cheating because it would make votes from areas with very little population much more powerful than votes from regions with the majority of the population. You could end up with a scenario where the winner of the election (via the electoral college) loses the popular vote by literally 5+ million votes. That's some banana republic type shit, and you know it as well as I do. Oh, and the districts that would be used to decide how the electoral college votes are distributed were gerrymandered by the GOP after the 2010 elections. It's literally rigging the game. Either win with your ideas or get the fuck out of here. And if your ideas can't win, maybe it's time to change some of your ideas.
Gay marriage is actually net popular among black Americans now, thanks in part to Obama taking the lead on it. Though, what is your point? As far as I can tell, there are tons of people from all backgrounds that are against gay marriage. They all have one thing in common - their arguments don't stand up to any scrutiny and are based upon religious bullshit (directly or indirectly.) They'll either evolve their views or die off. Either way, we'll move past that bullshit as surely as time passes.
And calling the Democrats the party of "freebies" is a little bit absurd. Both parties give plenty of freebies. It just depends on who they go to, the people or mega corporations. But, beyond that, define freebies. What are these freebies? You mean freebies like the mortgage interest tax deduction? I'm pretty sure both the GOP and the Dems are fine with that one. Or, how about the carried interest tax rule? Isn't that just a giant give-away to big money donors to both parties? At least the Dems pay lip service to getting rid of it.
And yes, if you're out of work, social issues go on the back burner. That doesn't mean that you'll abandon all of your principles to vote for a guy who promises lower taxes and smaller government. That simply does not compute. 1.) Lower taxes don't lead to more jobs, that's not how job creation works. 2.) Some of us put basic human dignity above an obsessive quest for lower taxes.
Finally. The GOP literally ran up the debt and deficits for 8 years without a care in the world. Sending us into a pointless war that will cost us trillions over the course of decades as we care for our wounded warriors and rebuild and refurbish our military. I can't take anyone on the right, save for a handful of honest brokers, who talk about Obama's "spending problem," after they did far worse for nearly a decade. Not to mention, so much of the deficit comes from decreased tax receipts which are due to a slowly recovering economy which is due to us recovering from the biggest financial crisis in history which took place under their watch.
C'mon man!
Warms my heart that when we are $20 Trillion and growing in debt that we can all rest assured that gay marriage benefits will be accepted. Sure the capital markets will take that into consideration as they require more yield to invest in our not so safe assets.
Republicans control the House and 30 governorships. We will see how popular the Democrats are when 2016 comes around and taxes are through the roof with no balanced budget and debt more than doubling in 8 years.
Gay marriage needs to be legalized because it is logical. You're also providing rights to one group and not another. Just because the economy is in the shitter doesn't mean that every other issue needs to be pushed to the wayside (though I do think it should take precedence, which it does).
Come on dude. How can you defend this? You would be a lot more credible if you didn't defend EVERY republican action
1) Gay Marriage IS legal, just benefits are inequal. I support removing all marriage benefits. Why the government is involved in individual, personal lives is beyond me.
2) Politics is a war, nothing more. Democrats roll up with buses and bring barely literate people to the polls. Republicans redistrict. You are only pissed because it fucks Democrats (who do the same damn thing when they can).
If Democrats were elected by an educated populace, while Republicans solely relied on these tricks I would be right there with you. But ask yourself this. As an educated Democrat, do you really think your thought out views are equally held by the bottom who vote your people in office? You use them just as Republicans use their religious voters.
Cannon fodder and nothing else. And I support any means that elect people who promote fiscal conservativeness. The ignorant masses only want something for free, which people who depend on them to get elected are more than happy to promise. And in the end we suffer for their acquiescence.
I think you know what I meant, all or none. But yes I agree the marriage benefits should be removed. Honestly, I'd go as far as having the government tax people for having children (just to make sure they're serious about it). Of course that shit would never pass
Absolutely. We should have a tax on children. It would disincentize lower income people from breeding.
Right, I know. But, we aren't going to be removing the benefits anytime soon. In the interim, let's treat gay couples the same as we treat straight couples and let's not make this an argument about histrionics.
Plenty of GOP-oriented groups bus people to the polls. That isn't a Democrat-only tactic. Just think of all the evangelical churches that get people to the polls...and think about all the evangelical preachers who take stances in elections all the while having a tax exemption status.
Getting people to the polls is not even on the same planet as rigging through redistricting. One requires people voting more than other people to win. The other requires less people to win an election by an order of magnitude.
Are Republicans elected by an educated populace? Are you serious? Go read "What's the Matter with Kansas" and see if you still feel that way. What you're really saying is "Democrats are elected by a populace that doesn't agree with my point of view. And religious voters are just as dumb in my eyes but at least vote for the things I want, even if it is against their best interest."
Btw, in terms of level of education and voting for a party, Democrats actually tend to do best with highly educated folks and decently well amongst the wealthy.
Why not just have a King, then? Shit, I'd love an enlightened philosopher king, but it's not going to happen. You're making things out to be way too black and white. Wanting a balanced approach to getting our fiscal house in order does not equate to endless freebies and socialism. Look at the 1990s, we had a balanced approach and balanced our budget for multiple years. It wasn't until the GOP had power that our books hit the red.
Raising taxes by 4% on the 2% of the population that controls some 90% of the wealth is not oppressive taxation. And as you know, I'm with you 100% on means testing SS, raising the age of SS and whatever else over time. It's not crazy at all. There are balanced approaches. Let's worry about getting our shit in order and then cutting the shit out of taxes once we've fixed our long-term outlook.
Dude, inflation kicks in, unemployment goes to 20-30% and people start starving and the USA would elect Hitler. We are nothing more than well dressed animals with a voice box.
And while Republicans give freebies to corporations, GM isn't pulling the voting lever. Democrats give hand outs to the people and they vote for them. Hence why you have Harvard educated Obama being elected by University of Phoenix drop outs.
Ends justify the means. Redistrict as much as possible to disenfranchise as many as possible.
Yes, raging high IQs in red states that go 70% republican.
Difference is Republicans, at least now, are for smaller government, states rights and less taxation. If retards vote for less taxes and a smaller government, good.
The problem is when morons vote for more spending and more government. Republicans vote against their best interest personally, but fiscally the best interest for the nation. Democrats vote FOR their best interest and the worst interest fiscally for the country.
Hussein does not understand what makes America tick. He's just a fatherless pot smoking, coke head teen.
Just look at his fan base: kids, african americans and latinos. These three categories have one thing in common: They're a drag on society.
Also, is it me or his wife's new hair style looks like the thing we see on hood rat heads in Chicago slums?
Good pt, companion, thanks for killing the debate for the republicans with a brain.
Anyway, most red staters vote on social issues, not bc they will benefit from lower taxes, they pay the least anyway and prob benefit the most from govt programs.
Yea, that hurt a little.
And I'm not sure how true that is, are there any statistics to back it up? Also, something to look forward to in the future: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/09/us/politics/young-republicans-erase-l…
Who says we shouldn't have a king? Freedom is dead and dying in this country. I actually really respect the Chinese.
And c'mon. Taxes increase for a small amount of people this time around. But there will be more taxes. And states are increasing all kinds of taxes. When you look at things in totality you just see the meter increasing.
My point isn't to say R>D when it comes to intelligence. My point is that retards who vote for less government > retards who vote for all. Both parties are built on barely functional blobs of cells.
We should allow abortion up until the 84 trimester to cull the herd.
I don't get the whole social issue gripe. Gay marriage benefits will eventually come and then what? Abortion? That isn't going to change much. People shit out a mini human and they start getting sentimental.
We need the drones to get married, pay taxes and live a relatively moral life. Caligula level shit cannot be allowed to run wild. Why? Because stupid people bang at alarming rates and pump out kids like a human pez dispenser.
People are pissed off because certain rights are granted to certain parts of the population and not others. My reasoning besides the fact that it's fucking obnoxious and morally despicable? It's not logical. Government systems that are not logical fail, or at the very least, perform miserably.
Bro, is it sad that I'm waiting for my Republican brethren to die off?
Hey, if the pubbies would just cut the religious / anti-abortion / anti-gay marriage bullshit, I'd vote for them in a hurry. But, that won't happen until the base literally dies off.
Ok, question though. How do you keep the prols in line without a cloud in the sky? You and I might be able to debate evolution and the like, but the masses need a prepackaged moral system.
In child development you can test morals by asking them why they would do or not do something.
Would you take candy from Becky
1) Yes
2) No, I would get in trouble
3) No, she has a right to property and it would be wrong
The majority of people are at 2, fearful of punishment. Hence why we become nasty little animals the second the law breaks down (LA Riots, Katrina, etc). Trying to tell people to be moral without fire and brimstone is a losing battle for the majority of people.
If anything, religion allows people to act however they want. Think about it, all you have to do to be accepted into "eternal paradise" is accept Jesus as your lord and savior and ask for forgiveness. What you've done in your life doesn't matter. It's not about doing good works, it's about accepting a sky wizard into your heart.
People that get past that tend to be more moral because they realize that we've only got one shot to make it right.
Just look at the prison population. It's like 99% religious.
In the end, though, I guess I don't have an answer other than time.
Not. True. At. All. The Bible says that Christians become like new creations and are to reject a life controlled by sin and other worldly things. That doesn't mean Christians don't sin. In fact, other religions that are works-based probably don't sin as much (an assumption, I know). But many Christians are very moral even though we believe in a next life because we feel that is what children of God should be like. I could go on but that would take some time.
Look, I get that you're obviously not a Chrisitan but that doesn't mean you can make ignorant statements about us.
Do you deny that all it takes to get to "heaven" is accepting christ?
Obviously many Christians are moral people, but many are also not because their religion allows them to be.
Look, I'm talking about evangelicals here. I'm not saying that all Christians think this way. But, a large portion of our religious population does. Doing good works is essentially optional for the evangelicals, what matters most is accepting Christ. Denying gays equal rights and fighting against abortion come in a close second and third.
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