Fellow Monkeys,
I have always been fascinated by cars as a young kid following car forums and reading car magazines. I was naive and during my early years (9-12 years old) I thought it would be amazing when I go work at a job and can afford to by myself a nice car.
Now when I have some capital and make good money, I am part of this community that basically thinks you have the IQ of a pigeon if you even think about getting a car as a junior person in finance in a major city.
I live in NYC and work in PE with great hours and barely any weekend work. I spent 3 years in banking getting top bucket bonuses and have been thinking about buying a vehicle purely for leisure. I also pay like 3k in rent. I was thinking of something potentially used in the ~$40k range (Cayman S, F-Type, other Suggestions?)
Apologies on the long post - the question I pose is what are your thoughts on this topic or how have you evaluated certain decisions around leisure/hobbies in the past?
I fully understand it is not the best decision (as echoed by literally every single one of my friends), but I feel like people are not evaluating the considerations behind this purchase and its value to me, rather they think I am trying to show off or something. I am in my mid-20s and I truly have a strong passion for cars and it gives me pleasure if I can own one before I am an old raisin looking mofo driving around in a drop top.
Any thoughts on how to go about considering this purchase?
Your 4 options:
Don't buy it: for money reasons
997 Porsche 911 Carrera (maybe S?): my personal preference, best balance of performance and comfort
993 Porsche 911 Carrera (maybe S?): more purist and better driving experience, far less comfortable
996 Porsche 911 Turbo: least pure, probably the fastest, still comfortable
Good luck getting a decent 993 for under $60k,,,you might be able to find a 911sc targa for that price But definitely not Cayman S, youll always be wishing you splurged on the 911
You could get a mint 1980's sharknose BMW M6 for that money with quite a bit left over too
"Buying a Porsche other than a 911 shows that your life didn't go quite as you planned." - Clarkson (or something to that effect)
haha okay the Porsche is scratched off
I'm saying buy the Porsche, they're the best bang for your buck in that category. But get a 911, not a Boxster with a hard roof (aka Cayman)
You can get a powerful stylish drop top for a lot less than $40k. Is there a reason you want a car of that class?
BMW I8 seems like a steal of a value IMO. Great design, hybrid with insane MPG, decent performance, and can find 2 year old used for sub 70k.
a bit out of my price range
Used ones are going super cheap....... several listings in the 50k ish range.
Sidenote i8s lease extremely well. I know a few friends leasing them for under $1k a month with basically nothing down.
The performance is piss poor for the price. If you really want to cut down on the gasoline bill, just get a Tesla. Performance is far better and electricity bill
Do it. It’s your money. You earned it. You might regret it you might not, lots of people save like crazy and end up regretting it, others don’t. I think the only person who should tell you how to spend your money is yourself. When you get married that shit won’t fly so do it now.
The same way you evaluate any other decision - does it make you happier and/or what's the worst that could happen (and can i live with it). Literally, you'd just bucket it with your 'entertainment' money - no different than going out to eat, buying random expensive things, travel, etc.
More importantly - why do you give a shit about what they think of your decision, to spend **your **money, on something **you **want, that makes **you **happy.
"Literally, you'd just bucket it with your 'entertainment' money - no different than going out to eat, buying random expensive things, travel, etc."
A $40,000 purchase does not fall into any of those categories that is a big deal to spend that money in your mid 20s. Definitely buy the car because it seems you have the means and it will make you happy. But don't just think of it as a normal purchase like going out to eat or traveling, it is much bigger. Factor in the resale value of the car at X mileage as well and your net cost will be lower.
Go for it, man.
I don't know a ton about them, but have you looked into those NYC car clubs where you pay a membership and can "rent" a car for the weekend? Might be a good option as well. Classic Car Club of Manhattan is the one I remember reading about, but I'm sure there are others.
I would buy a used Audi S6/RS6, you can find a nice one for around 40k without too many miles on them. Beautiful car, fast, more practical than most other cars too. I think the 2012 RS6 has a 4.0L v8. You could fly in that thing and still drive it in NYC winters. Or look into used M3s. Idk buying an M3 or an S Class / RS Class Audi has always been my plan.
Facts. E series m3 wipes the floor and sounds amazing.
In my mind I have gone back and forth between RS7 and M3 for what I consider to be a realistic and obtainable "dream" car. I still don't have an answer but realized I would be ecstatic with either
Damn didn't realize the RS6 could be that cheap now. Those are fantastic. I think Jags are often overlooked, they're a ton of fun. I totaled two of them.
yeah also the F type looks sick AF
Jags are fantastic and fun cars, until you deal with maintenance. Talking to a friend's dad who recently joked that on a good year he was spending $2k a year in maintenance if nothing went wrong.
I’m in the same boat as you except I’m mid 30s and not in PE but still looking for excitement. Always loved cars esp the 911s but cost to keep one in the city is prohibitive.
Am strongly considering picking one up and finding a parking spot somewhere in Westchester near a metro north stop. Looked at car clubs but they seem too expensive and restrictive. Hard to lose a lot on a nicely bought used turbo if it’s a weekend beater. I’m trying to make a decision soon. Good luck.
buy a miata with 4 turbos dont be a pussy
Get a bike it's fun and you can easily store it the 364 days of the year you're probably not going to ride it in your apartment with having to purchase / rent a parking space in NYC. When you become a big dick swinging MD by a 911 and make your intern clean it once a week to build character.
That's the issue, I just feel like the value it will provide to me is much less once I am a grey haired MD.
Not sure about your cash flow situation but you can always just try passport by Porsche for a month and see how it works out for you. I believe they're running a fall promo now waiving the activation fee.
Mercedes C63 Amg for three main reasons: It looks great, it's a Mercedes and it's powerful. Price varies if you're buying a coupe or sedan though so it may be slightly out of your price range
I would do it. I'm in my mid 20s and make nothing close to PE $, but I just got a 2016 mazda 3 hatchback and it has been so much fun to drive. Makes my commute enjoyable and it feels good to drive a respectable vehicle.
Are you in Manhattan or out in the Boros? As a note, in Manhattan you'll either be paying a few hundred a month for parking or spending hours a week fighting for street parking. In either case NYC is rough on cars (especially street parking, but don't expect kid gloves from the attendants for off-street either) so expect depreciation several times as fast as average.
In either case, I'd suggest considering something fun and completely impractical that won't break the bank, but will still be fun. I know GoldenCinderblock was joking, but a Miata (particularly the 94-05 1.8s before they got overweight) may be a good option. It's slow enough that you can wail on it in Manhattan without ending up in the tombs, nimble enough to be fun, and cheap enough to basically be disposable, while still being pretty reliable. You don't need new car reliability and features since you probably take the subway to work, and just want fun, so it's pretty ideal.
My best friend had a Miata just like this. We would take it up to the mountains and he would just swing the tail out all the way up and all the way down. Even go into parking lots just to drift around light poles. Definitely a ton of fun.
One time we did this across the police station thinking, "What are they gonna do? Get out of their office and pull us over?" Well they did do exactly that. In case anyone here has the decision making skills I had in high school, don't do that.
You will barely use the car, would be my guess. For a couple hundred bucks or sometimes less, per day, you can go on Turo and rent a different car each time. If you did this ten times a year, it would be WAY cheaper than owning. Especially counting parking and other BS. Plus, you can go with a wide range of cars that change whenever you want them to.
Best advice on this whole thread. Also i dont know why no one has recommended leasing a car yet. Buying a car is bad all around in my opinon.
If you get a car be prepared to pay 300+ a month for a garage unless you wind up doing on in the outer boroughs. I street parked for a few years but it’s not worth the hassle if you are not driving everyday.
I have a buddy who has a e39 m5 in his garage in his building and he never drives it. Similar to you he bought it knowing he didn’t need it but got a good deal and it just sits around.
If you buy something nichey/ limited edition you probably have a better chance of limiting depreciation through your ownership too.
Don't let some god damn dweebs determine YOUR car experience. If you enjoy driving a Cayman, go for it. I'd take some time and try out different cars on Turo before deciding.
I'm a car enthusiast who blew some amount (not too much) on cars in the past. Planning on picking up an S2000 soon (I live in Hoboken so the parking hurts the wallet a little less @250 in the public garage instead of 700 or whatever in Manhattan). I have a tiny s***hole apartment and no city taxes so I figure this is a totally reasonable treat for myself.
It sounds like you're not familiar with sports cars...I would say the big decision you need to make is if you want a "GT" or "hardcore driver's car".
All modern Porsches are quasi-GT cars, with the exception of the stripped down track models. They're quiet and comfortable with a big slow steering wheel. I happened to rent a Jag F-type not long ago and I'd rate it maybe a touch higher than a Porsche on the interior, but the ride quality was really horrible. Any super-sedan or sports coupe like the BMW M3/M4 is solidly in the GT camp. GT cars are great daily drivers for California traffic, assuming they have good ride quality.
Hardcore cars would be stuff like the Lotus Elise, S2000, and modified Miatas and MR2s, aka stuff people take to the track. You feel like you're going fast even though you're actually going slow, and the noise beats you up if you go for a long drive. What you'll quickly find out if you drive these is that they are ridiculous fun compared to GTs, but they are horrible daily drivers unless you're a special breed of masochist. Short wheelbase, an easy to place footprint, twitchy handling, lots of noise, and especially a high revving engine with a light flywheel make a car fun. The downside is that these are cars you have to own and spend time on modifying, because no one is going to rent you one on Turo, and there are pretty much no real hardcore cars for sale in the US anymore besides stuff like the 911 GT3 or exotics.
These days with active suspension you have a good choice of high-dollar cars like 911s and Corvettes that can do both, but I personally find driving a nice car kind of nerve-wracking. Cheap small cars don't feel like they're taking up the whole road and could easily bump into something, and having a little less power means you can keep the pedal floored and have a stupid grin on your face listening to the engine make lots of noise.
The other thing is that on cheap Japanese sports cars, your money goes a LONG way if you modify it compared to European cars, and upgrading components here and there is IMO one of the most fun parts of the hobby. For example most cheap cars come with sliding single piston cast iron calipers and single piece rotors. Usually a bit under 2k will buy you a 4 piston aluminum caliper + 2 piece rotor with aluminum hat which will drop 20lbs off each axle and give you more brake than you will ever need even if it's Max Verstappen driving. You can usually buy flow-formed wheels for a few hundred a set or forged wheels for only 2k a set, vs. 4k+ for bigger forged wheels on luxury cars. You can get a 2k set of coilovers that makes the ride more firm than Porsche "S" variants. Racing bucket seats bolted straight to the floor hold you much better when you turn and let you sit lower for only a few hundred bucks.
Some concrete suggestions:
Masochist cars -Used Lotus Elise + a few k on the (Toyota) motor for reliability, you could do this for close to 30k all in. Insurance is expensive on this car but since it's just for leisure you can use Hagerty's or something. -S2000, leave it completely stock, or small mods like brakes/flywheel/exhaust. You can scoop up a clean one for under 15k. Downside is this car is not that fast because it's quite heavy for the power. I'm personally going AP1 because I've had 8000rpm before, and I just know 9000rpm has to be more fun. -Very very heavily modified Miata. Until the ND2, Miatas always had s*** motors, so that's the place you'll want to pour lots of money into. The NC has the Ford Duratec which has the best racing parts availability (e.g. the BAC Mono uses a Cosworth Duratec), but it's also the ugliest one. I actually really like NDs, but engine upgrade parts aren't commercially available right now. If you could nab someone's modified early Miata with a built engine that goes past 8000rpm it would be a lot of fun for very little money. -2ZZ swapped MR2 Spyder - I used to have one, this car is ridiculously fun, but the interior is incredibly poor. Lots of people do the swap and a clean one is only 7k. Needs a lot of work if you want to actually take it to the track though. -2GR (V6) swapped 2nd gen MR2 - Poor man's Cayman, except it's actually way faster with a few modifications. You should be able to pick one up for about 15k. It's a very standard swap, a guy makes a kit for it, and tons of shops will do it for you, you just need to give them the car. Without any modifications besides the swap kit it'll give you 300hp in a 2500lb car, and the engine should be able to give you close to 350hp with the investment of a few k. Downside is you have a 25 year old car.
Cruisers/noise-making sofas: -F-type: I was a skeptic, but I LOVE the silly loud exhaust. It's hilariously fun to waste gas and scare pedestrians with the cracks and pops. It also looks great. Everything else is meh. -If you're going to get a Porsche, I'd go 2009-2015 Cayman or Cayman S. You get the "9A1"/"MA1" engine which is lighter, more powerful, and more reliable than the earlier M96/M97 garbage that blew cylinder walls consistently. -If it's not repulsive to you, C7 Corvettes are going for firesale prices since the C8 was announced. A few k brings the engine up to 550hp. You can't get more speed for the money (besides a C5 Z06 Corvette). -I personally really like how previous gen Aston Martin V8 Vantages look and sound. I want to try driving one someday. They can be found under 40k, but you'll need to allocate more money to maintenance (it's still only a fraction of what parking costs). -Used Bentley Continental GTs and Maserati Granturismos are actually very cheap, but they're very big and heavy cars. Again, allocate more to maintenance. -Used Lotus Evoras can be had in the 30s and will attract a lot of stares on the road while being good fun to drive. If you want attention this is a cheap way to get it. -I'd really steer clear of BMW M3s. The E90 V8 engine was really great, but it's still in a 3 series chassis, and you can never escape the feeling that you're just in a normal car.
wow - very helpful, thank you
Anyone stating I would really steer clear of M3s hasnt been in an M3 and probably watched a few youtube videos. You do know there is a good reason why they are one of the most idolized enthusiast cars right? The E9x class has the best steering out of any car Ive ever been in. The acceleration in that car makes it feel 3x faster than it is, I feel more alive driving my 2010 than I do driving my Dad's 22 mid engine C8. I typically hit 110 on my way to work every day in my E92 and that wakes me up more than any cup of coffee ever will.
I didnt read your entire post because it was way too long but why would you recommend Miatas to a PE Associate who wants a weekend car? He can clearly afford something with more power better handling and a more exhilarating experience.
The E9x M3 has a high seating position. Its 3 series roots are very obvious. I have an Aston Martin Vantage which also has slightly high seats but it still feels lower and more exciting than the M3. Porsche is a little more hardcore but it loses out on engine noise and luxury feel.
A Miata is ridiculous fun. Have you even driven a Miata?? Even though it's missing exotic engine sounds I really like, I would buy a ND and swap the cams (or supercharge it if that's not enough power) if I could fit in one. It's that good.
I’m a big fan of the Lotus Elise and Evora. I have driven an Elise and it was a blast. The interior was bare, but it drives like a go cart. Skidpad is insane on the car - you turn and you’re there. And the exterior styling on both cars does turn heads. Highly recommended.
Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio. Can be had for under 50k and silly fast yet super modern interior. Press a button and it’s a cruiser one moment and a fiery dart the next. A little unproven since they are relatively new to North America but the combination of comfort, class, and shear power make it hard to beat for the price.
Have you thought about the 370z that is slightly under your budget 36k you can still have as much fun zipping around corners. Other options include BMW 3 series or buy something used and tune it.
I’m bias here and have worked on them all my life with my Dad, but Porsche’s are great cars. Do you plan on playing with the car in terms of performance upgrades or modifications? Porsche has historically had a great restoration and modification community. All older 911s have a story and can become a very personal car over time. Vintage Porsche’s are relatively serviceable with a strong community of individual experts and with the Porsche Classic program too. Also, Targa’s or Cabs/convertibles are the way to go if you enjoy touring. Whatever you decide, I’d say go used. Why eat the depreciation when someone else can for you?
Get literally any V8 muscle car in a manual. I know this is old but if for some reason your plan was delayed/you didn't follow through, they offer the best driver to car experience. You can get lightly used Mustang GT's with manuals in them for 35k and there are some available on the market that have kits/other mods that don't make them look too boomer-y. They perform pretty well and last long as well. Idk if that's your taste though.
Secondhand Corvette over Mustang/Camaro any day... C7s are already dirt cheap. The Chevy pushrod engines are stupid powerful.
Dude, GTR.
I think you misspelled "Viper GTS." You can even buy an early model for under $30K:
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