Hi - longtime user of this site, but first time actually posting. I'm 28m, working in PE, with a prior stint in mgmt. consulting. Wanted to ask you guys about stimulant use. I started smoking late high school throughout college because it helped me concentrate / liked the nicotine rush. Senior year of uni, I was diagnosed with ADHD, and the meds honestly changed my life. However I maintained a view that my lifestyle was also a factor (e.g., exercise, social media consumption, routine, etc.), and I didn't love the side effects, so I eventually weaned myself off regular use. I also quit smoking 2 years ago and have just been using Zyns. Today, I alternate between coffee, zyns, and/or my adhd meds (on really rough work days).
My question is - for those of you who have experience consuming one or more of the three stimulants I mentioned (coffee, nicotine, ADHD meds), what are your thoughts on long-term use? I have a co-worker who quit nicotine altogether, and says he can focus much better for extended periods of time. Are we just kicking the can down the road / handicapping ourselves by consuming these stimulants? Like many my age, my primary objective is maximizing performance, while minimizing adverse effects to my health. Seems like each one of these stimulants comes with its own issues (too much coffee = heartburn / GERD, too much nicotine = lung or gum issues, too much ADHD medication = mental health deterioration), and I wonder if anyone has any experience quitting altogether or moderating in a way that made sense for you personally. As long as this question is unresolved, I continue to feel guilty every time I consume because I don't know if I'm really harming myself / long-term performance.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
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Maximizing performance while minimizing health risks is a common concern in high-stress industries like PE and consulting. Based on the most helpful WSO content, here are some insights and considerations regarding stimulant use:
1. Long-Term Health Risks of Stimulants
2. Are Stimulants a Crutch?
3. Moderation and Alternatives
4. Guilt and Self-Reflection
5. Practical Steps
Ultimately, the goal is to strike a balance that aligns with your health and performance objectives. Many in high-stress fields have found success by prioritizing sleep, exercise, and moderation over heavy reliance on stimulants.
Sources: How much damage has banking done to your life?, IB/PE with ADHD?, Traders with ADHD, GS Analyst Survey Results, As my username suggests, not sure what to do...
Bump
I heard Vivanse is good, but my psych won't give it to me.
I'm a spiritual boomer, I stick to earl grey tea and black coffee. I get up around 5:30 and try to be in bed by 10. I'm also in the gym 5-6 days a week, that helps a ton with natural energy levels. For many in finance 10pm bedtime isn't possible, but if you're in a situation where you can get 6-7hrs of sleep and also eat well and exercise, definitely make it a priority. It's boring old stuff but it does work.
I've tried this. Can definitely say if there was one silver bullet, it would be exactly this routine / lifestyle. Seems to fix pretty much everything... with one caveat. Social life. Absolutely wrecks my day when I'm sleeping / waking up early like this, then go to dinner with friends on the weekend and end up sleeping at 1-2 am. With a non-finance gf it's even worse. Got super, super, burnt out in my last relationship trying to balance work / exercise while maintaining some semblance of a social life / being able to see her more than just on weekends. Starting to think I'm going to have to date from industry to make next one work.
Either from industry, or someone who understands the rigors of this career at the very least and can understand/accept what that means from the start of the relationship. If you establish that early on then it doesn't build up into as much of an issue later.
nicotine is a long-term negative because it removes friction to start tasks, which creates a feedbcak loop of need to carry task = rely on nicotine to remove starting frictions = build tolerance = need to increase nicotine dose next time for same effect + you take it more often throughout the day
smoking is embedded more in habits routine, if you're used to go outside the office to smoke a cig, it's hard to quit because you don't have a coping mechanism to get a mental break
ADHD medication = lots of side effects + overreliance (but if u have ADHD might be different, my view is based on not having ADHD and trying some)
other supplements = fry your dopamine receptors, so you don't get as motivated about doing hard tasks because your reward system is too high so everything feels depressive
I think coffee is good, has lots of benefits + correlated with longetivity. I drink 5 espressos a day, but I also make sure to stay hydratated + take electrolytes to prevent dehidratation. It's just black coffee. The negative side effects usually associated with coffee consumption is a correlation =/= causation phenomenon, because you have people with poor sleep or other unattended issues that rely on coffee to get throughout their day
not medical advice, but modafinil is often advised as a supplement that mimicks a weaker version of adderall and has no side effects, you might need prescription
I think the real issue is that lots of people rely on adrenaline + cortisol in those careers because it creates that urgency/wired/anxious type of person fit for those roles, which eventually leads to burnout/poor sleep/chronic inflamation that leads to health deterioration indirectly. Some supplements to downregulte the nervous system might be helpful if you're one of those (taurine, l-theanine, etc.)
I also use Zyns but not for work but as a laxative lol unmatched gut health
Thanks for the advice! Never thought of the adrenaline / cortisol as a fuel source. And yes, it's very difficult for me to turn mind off at night / definitely have trouble sleeping. Will do a bit of research with this in mind.
I'm your age and like you have ADHD, except I've been aware of it for longer. Focus has been rough most of my life apart from the usual triggers like urgency/passion etc. I'm at a good point now though and I've been unmedicated my whole life so been playing on hard mode. I'm extremely resistant to stims (blow does nothing for me besides numbness) and basically abuse them (the normal ones like caffeine) just cuz they feel nice. I've smoked for a while now but it's more to just chill or relax rather than for focus - some days I have 0 cigs. Not a huge fan of zyns personally, 3s are too weak and 6s are too strong and the feeling in my mouth is uncomfortable in general. Gamechanger for me was lifting. I can spam stimulants and crack out a bit and train heavy and it feels good. Brings a sense of calm and zen and I'm locked in to do whatever I want.
For you, I'd suggest doing a little self analysis. Get yourself checked out. Are you predisposed to any health issues/heart issues? Things like that are real reasons to be a little cautious or consider quitting stimulants. And even if you just want to quit for the sake of it, that's okay too, it's your choice afterall. There are good less acidic types of coffees that don't cause heartburn as well btw. I have a coffee snob friend with a sensitive gut who got into this. For the meds, that's something you have to think about. If they are crucial to your life then you should stay on them if you don't notice adverse effects. Only you can really answer how bad you need them. I never got on them because I didn't want to become dependent on them for output and doing my best work. No idea if it's worked but if I got this far without them I reckon can probably handle it. But find out some more about yourself and see if you are harming yourself. Make other lifestyle changes as well to improve overall health and wellness. Being a fit person negates/significantly reduces a fuckton of comorbidities for effectively everything in some way. I personally don't have any heart/health concerns and I have no desire to quit any of these things I do. If you are easily addicted then avoid nic or taper it as much as you can. Imho it's not the worst as long as you aren't a fiend. Most of the brightest minds in modern history used nicotine in some form, so I will always stand for it if the likes of Einstein, Turing, Nash, Jim Simons all used it. Nic and caffeine aren't particularly bad for you, assuming no heart issues of your own ofc, especially in moderation (up to and around daily safe limit, which is decently high) and the pros really outweigh the cons. But again, in my case, the fitness also helps mitigate and offset things. I climb mountains, I hike, I sleep 7.5h, lift most days of the week. I take highdose Vit E to offset some smoking damage (look into this). I'm happy with my lifestyle in regards to stims and otherwise. I will say that I do not drink that often though. If social outing or company event yea I'm trying to get sloshed. Beer or 2 on the weekend sometimes. Otherwise most weeks I'm not having anything. No reason to, just a waste of calories and money. Anyway sorry for tangent. Asses yourself and your predisposition to things. Make some changes as needed. Keep what you like and lose the rest.
The evidence is clear that use of any of these just sets your baseline to a point where you need that much to function normally, and need an ever-increasing amount to get any benefit. Plenty of studies show this, and even if the study you find is focused on one chemical (say caffeine) the pathways are all similar enough that you can be confident the same effect exists for your chemical of choice.
I think the best approach is to reduce daily use as much as possible, so that in the rare instance where you really need a boost (some unusual high stakes situation) you can enjoy that benefit on a normal dose. More regular use is pretty clearly counterproductive in my opinion.
I drink a fair bit of caffeine but am reducing it. I'll take a modafinil maybe once a month on average when a situation arises . . usually a situation where I didn't sleep well and have some really important thing to do the next day.
I have a longer term goal of getting caffeine down to zero. The few who've done it say its worth it.
Everything I said above is just brain effects only. I haven't even bothered looking up possible heart effects. The brain effects are compelling enough to eliminate or heaviliy reduce daily use.
Well said +SB
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