What are you initial thoughts on the SCOTUS opinion leak?
This forum has a lot of smart people who bring many interesting perspectives to the table, so lets hear 'em.
| +51 | SpaceX IPO - what are your thoughts | 11 | 35m |
| +28 | Should I use Claude or chatgpt? | 15 | 21h |
| +21 | Funny Things to Say to Interns | 7 | 23h |
| +18 | London's future as a financial centre | 18 | 2d |
| +17 | How did you meet your significant other/partner? | 13 | 1d |
| The Great Debate | 9 | 1d | |
| +7 | E ink/electronic notepads | 4 | 1d |
| +6 | Stay Sharp All Day With Best Modvigil 200 MG Tablet | 0 | 1d |
| +6 | Test post will be deleted automatically. | 11 | 1d |
| +5 | get a model before you model | 3 | 2d |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
Good. About time we stop forcing states to legalize murder.
Allowing access to abortion is the fiscally conservative thing to do. Less babies being born into shitty and poor families who are likely to continue the cycle of poverty and continue draining welfare resources.
But it’s obviously not about being pro life, as the second the baby is born, almost half the country does their best to strip them of social safety nets that are helpful in breaking the poverty cycle. Their solution? Just be born to better, smarter, and wealthier parents, as if the babies have the luxury of choosing who their parents are and what life they provide (or don’t provide) for them
politically - republicans had the easy win in midterms and 2024 but now risk reinvigorating the anti-republican craziness voting base. Bunch of fucking morons, both parties. Don’t cry if boomer biden or his protege win in 2024 if the culture war nonsense continues
The United States has a gargantuan welfare state that not only doesn’t break people out of the cycle of poverty but literally reinforces it. Generational poverty is incredibly common despite welfare, EITC, food stamps, affordable housing, utility reimbursements, school lunches, etc.
you’re not wrong - but I don’t see how taking welfare away is going to help the situation in any way either. Stupid people will continue to make stupid life decisions like creating kids they can’t care for
Not wanting a baby (or person) to die doesn't mean I also want to raise them myself
A fetus is not a baby.
And just to be clear, you're cool with a 12 year old raising a baby by herself after she's been raped right? Since you don't want to raise it yourself ? And I guess you're also a staunch supporter of more funding for orphanages and the likes? To raise all those babies born from meth-head mothers who couldn't get aborted and subsenquently abandonned the baby in a dumpster.
This is literally the textbook counter argument coming from educated liberals. Since it’s so commonly used, it is very easy to counter your points:
1) You’re flat out saying that poor people should die and are worthless in society. In other words, you’re conceding that abortion is murder, but it’s ok since the people dying are “worthless” by your means? Who are you to say that a piece of paper (college education) or how much one earns determines whether we should let that person live or die?
2) “Half the country” is not doing their best to strip people of social safety nets. This type of argument lacks any understanding of political science. The GOP is not one voting bloc- there are separate, very distinct partitions within the GOP. Here are a few easy ones:
A) The wealthy businessman
His sole goal is to minimize his taxes and maximize the amount of deductions he can get. He will vote solely due to taxes/deregulation
B) The rural evangelical
His/her understanding of finances is not strong, but votes red solely on social issues (abortion, LGBT, etc.)
C) The suburbanite
May be solely A or a combination of A and B.
Demographic B is the group pushing the pro-life in the GOP, movement no questions asked. Now because your educated in a very good job, your automatic go to for the “face of the GOP” is A. But the problem is, your reference is the wrong GOP voting bloc. A will vote red abortion or no abortion. B will not. Conversely, higher taxes isn’t going to turn B away, but it will turn A away.
I think you’re projecting here
Rural evangelicals will never, ever vote democrat. They are about a solid voting bloc as they come. I remember when everyone said “oh republicans won’t come for abortion”, yet here we are. I wonder why.. it’s not because of the wealthy businessmen, as they obviously don’t give a shit and have probably funded more than one abortion in their lifetime
---
I’m very, very pro-life, but I’m admittedly nervous about the political ramifications. My initial reaction to the leak was that we would see a summer of riots leading to the official announcement, but then it struck me that college educated white women probably aren’t going to riot, but I can see a summer of protests, for sure. Very, very angry protests covered by a very sympathetic media that will have a convenient story to distract from stagflation, border crisis, and war.
I can definitely see this issue losing Republican seats on the margins in certain states and congressional races, though the polling really doesn’t suggest a pro-abortion wave. As someone who is very pro-life, saving, say, 100,000 babies a year from a brutal murder is worth losing some elections. On a practical level, however, I expect the knee jerk reaction of the opponents of the ruling will be to expand abortion rights in their areas of governance.
Good point. The angry protests have already begun and I'm already seeing some angry men in them, so yeah, riots are a high likelihood.
I'm not wading into the politics of the case. Instead my beef with this leak is that it's the second super high profile leak of court business this year. First with Breyer's retirement, and now this. I can't rule out that there's been another leak or more, but those are the two most extreme ones that catch my attention at the moment.
The Supreme Court is supposed to be apolitical, despite how everything seems to turn into a political shitshow regardless. But still, if the one place that was always taught as being a true neutral arbiter is now being gamed for political reasons, I don't care which side it's meant for. It needs to stop. One of the last polls laid out that the Supreme Court was the one institution in this country that still held positive sentiment among the people, but this is a very surefire way to destory that. There's enough distrust (albeit a lot very well deserved) in government already, and this might only exacerbate that by more than a simple 1:1 ratio.
Setting aside the decision, which may or may not come to being the end decision (but probably)...the leak itself is crazy. First time ever. This a huge deal. The fact that someone that was in a position to leak this and thus knows the historically context of said leak and still went scorched earth is it pretty wild. Probably both ruined and made a career in one fell swoop.
What do you think will be the punishment for the person who did this ?
I wasn't even aware that was against the law. Apparently, there are already talks of a full-blown FBI investigation.
lol they'll probably be praised not punished
Can you imagine going to college/living as a 20-something in Texas or Florida or Ohio once this is implemented? No plan B pill, probably gonna come for the pill too.
On the other end of the spectrum, this ends IVF procedures too, huge bummer for people struggling.
Pretty inevitable then too that GOP congress/new president will push for a nationwide ban.
Let's be clear about something. Young people today are as miserable as they've ever been--this has been shown by most (every?) surveys. Our society has "progressed" into cheap hookups, eternal singleness, and childlessness. Getting married and having kids will make a lot more people happy than sleeping with yet another person off of Tinder and living forever in a studio apartment.
...you sure spend a lot of time thinking about other people having sex
A nationwide ban would not be possible without another Supreme Court case because overturning Roe v Wade simply kicks the issue back to the states.
What does this have to do with IVF? Are states trying to ban that as well? Is that implied by some of these laws such as in Texas? Honestly curious what led to that statement.
You've got some in the pro-life movement who are very much opposed to IVF because it fertilizes lots of embryos, resulting often in the destruction of many fertilized embryos. But I don't see it going that far--there just aren't enough people willing to "die on that hill" within the movement. It's akin to, say, Democrats saying that we should have a 90% marginal tax rate--yeah, there are some Dems who believe that, but not enough to actually achieve that rate.
IVF works by removing eggs, fertilizing them in a lab, growing them for a few days outside the uterus then re-implanting them. Inevitably, some of these fail to grow once fertilized or fail to implant and are passed by the mother. Abortion bills deem any fertilized egg a human, so any failure to grow once fertilized or implant once inserted into the uterus would be considered an abortion or murder.
Right, they are overturning Roe to give the power back to the states, to then bring it back to the federal level and create a nationwide ban. You should play goalie - nothing gets past you.
What I hate most is the rationale behind the decision. What the fuck do the national traditions of slave owners 200 years ago have to do with today? It was a national tradition to treat fever with bloodletting at the time of the constitutions writing. It was national tradition to not allow anyone who didn’t own property to vote at its creation
What? The decision states that there is no constitutional right to an abortion; therefore, the debate gets sent down to the states for people to debate and vote on in their own areas.
I’m talking about alitos opinion
Sending it back to the states is a political act. They know that abortion will get repealed in all the red states. Also this will end up with the contraception and gay marriage ruling being overturned.
The hypocrisy among the conservatives is insane as well. Let a Muslim politician say that he wants to impose sharia law among everyone and they’d lose their shit, but imposing their religion on people is just fine
Here is a sampling of the Ten Commandments. Recognize any moral codes that made it into law?
- Thou shalt not murder
- Thou shalt not steal
- Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor
I'm not a Christian and I'm pro-life. This has nothing to do with religion.
That’s a shit argument, those are pretty universal laws. Religion has no place in government.
They are "universal" because you live in a society that was built on the Bible, up to and including Islamic countries. Every single law is implemented under a moral argument. Speed limit is limited to 55 on [that road] because it saves lives; drugs are illegal because they kill people; alochol can't be sold after 10 pm because otherwise alcoholism would be promoted; abortion should be legal because women should have agency over their own bodies? Why? Because she is a person with moral value.
Go ahead. Name a law today that is not in place with some underlying moral justification. Name one. It should be easy since, according to you, religion has no place in law.
I’m not exactly sure why you’re on this forum. I’m not sure you need to know how to build a DCF to flip a burger in McDonald’s. Morals are inherently subjective and are formed by what a group of people deems as acceptable behavior. This isn’t based on an objective measure on how “bad” something is but simply on the group’s opinion. Moral justification means jack shit as what someone’s morals are is entirely irrelevant
Generally, I think abortion has been used for 50yrs by the worthless GOPe as a culture war token to distract from more pressing issues like endless low-skilled immigration, offshoring/outsourcing of jobs and divorce/deterioration of the nuclear family, but I can also appreciate (non religious) arguments for kicking the issue back to individual states.
Funny you argue about the stream of low skill immigration. You’re pulling from talking points on shows that are meant for people with learning disabilities. The consensus in economic literature is that low skill immigration has no actual effect on unemployment or wages.
Strange take
xxx
This is the root of the debate, but it isn't so black and white as "abortion is murder". I agree that life happens pretty much at conception or if not a mere few weeks later when the fetus has a brain/organs, etc. Therefore we should do what's realistically possible to save those fetuses.
However, when did the life of an unborn person became more important than the life of the mother? This is the insane hypocrisy of the pro-life side. Nothing is more important to them than saving a fetus with no thoughts/emotions/conscience, however when it comes to saving the lives of the very real born babies in poor families or mothers, a lot of people want nothing at all to do with helping them.
- The U.S. has the highest maternal mortality rate in developped coutries (and it isn't even close) https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/nov/mat…
- The U.S ranks 33rd out of 36 OECD coutries for infant mortality rate https://www.americashealthrankings.org/learn/reports/2019-annual-report…
- Only 7 coutries in the entire world don't guarantee paid maternity leave. The US is one of them.
When pro-life people will stand and fight for those issues as hard as they fight for unborn fetuses, I will stand with them to limit abortion as much as possible. Until then, they are nothing more than hypocrites with shady motivations.
We're not saying the life of the mother is less important. We're saying that it's not right to kill an unborn person to improve the quality of life of the mother. This is why I'm fine with abortions if the mother's life is at risk.
Someone else already countered the rest of your argument. Wanting to save the unborn child's life doesn't mean I have to raise them myself. Vast majority of abortions aren't due to rape or incest. If a man and a woman have an unwanted child, it's their responsibility to take care of him/her.
Pro-life republicans aren't hypocritical. We're fairly consistent. We believe in the sanctity of life and personal responsibility.
Looks like the dog finally caught the car. Let's see what happens next. Good thing is the many incels of WSO will have nothing to worry about.
My personal beliefs on abortion are moderate so I'll leave those out - I'll just say I never want to hear conservatives complain about "activist judges" again.
Roe v. Wade was the "activist judges" at work.
This is such a cop out answer on everything. You don't want the states to decide - you want it banned nationwide. That's fine, just say it. Same when people say "gay rights is a state issue" because they know their truthful answer makes them a bigot.
I for one am tired of judges referencing a piece of paper that was written by candlelight and feather pen over 225 years ago as an immovable, unchangeable bastion of truth. If the shoe was on the opposite foot, conservatives would riot.
Can you provide some examples of what you mean by the “shoe being on the other foot?”. The way I see it conservatives do have a more originalist interpretation of the constitution, so liberals trying to play the originalist interpretation to their advantage would be difficult.
People like you are the issue. There are countless people that legit think the states should decide because the smaller federal government the better. If California and New York want to adopt certain policies then go right ahead. All the power to them. If Florida and Texas want to adopt other laws then all the power to them as well. Who gives a shit what someone from another state votes for on the issue? Doesn't have anything to do with me and those people are the ones that live there so they should be able to decide how their state is run.
But of course people like you, running high on your authoritarian high horse, want to make sure that your personal views are pushed on everyone else. You are so caught up in the idea that you can't even fathom a world where others don't think like you and want their agenda pushed on as many people as possible. Is it really that difficult for someone like you to imagine a world where you don't push your political views on the entire US/world?
In case you do not know some of the following:
- the clock starts at the women's last period, thus actual conception is at 2 weeks of the babies "age"
- by week 8, really 6 weeks since conception, a women would have missed only 1 cycle, many women have irregular periods and thus missing 1 cycle potentially wouldn't even raise an alarm
- genetic testing isn't done until week 12-14, at this point, while rare its possible to identify horrific abnormalities. Even still the initial test isn't diagnostic, if result are cause for alarm, you need an actual diagnostic that can take a couple of weeks
- an anatomy scan isn't done until week 20, again, while rare, its possible to identify horrific abnormalities
- if any of the above results in the unthinkable and if its in the babies/mothers best interest to "abort" for lack of better terms 8 weeks is completely unrealistic. I have several friends that drew the short straw and had something extremely horrible happen whereby the baby essentially needed to be "aborted"
- if you look at the stats on abortion, the fall of rate is extremely fast in the early periods and typically those that are done later, while rare, are for baby/mother medical reason
Minima sunt maxime autem soluta numquam. Veniam eum rerum placeat saepe ipsum qui dolorum. Ea consectetur enim assumenda qui quae. Velit nemo nisi expedita laborum nisi.
Natus eius dolor et aut rem aperiam qui. Aut ut molestias dolorem dolor illo. Aspernatur consequatur animi reprehenderit.
Sit dolorum aut quibusdam. Mollitia ab pariatur ut maxime consectetur laborum consectetur. Sit est rerum perferendis officiis. Alias repellendus porro et vel. Ex ut molestiae ab cumque. Saepe sint aspernatur voluptatibus voluptatem incidunt.
At dolore ducimus dolorum. Asperiores ex quis quia consequatur. Culpa enim recusandae nisi saepe corrupti.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Aut ipsum autem at et nobis dolores. Fuga voluptate illum neque facilis. Exercitationem ut est est occaecati. Est ad deserunt doloribus sunt deserunt.
Nulla sapiente atque molestiae sit enim voluptatem excepturi. Et debitis et est fuga voluptatem tempore. Impedit et eos ut aperiam.
Quisquam necessitatibus placeat quo quod reprehenderit deserunt. Hic velit voluptatem quisquam consequatur totam quos. Perspiciatis assumenda enim voluptate consequatur.