What do you say about ex boss, who was a douche?
I don't know exactly how to react when anyone asks me about my previous boss (who wasn't a very good person but was very good at putting a nice face to clients)? I don't want to talk crap, but I am also not the best liar? Would appreciate any advice.
This is what a friend wrote about his (bad) manager:
My previous manager was a guiding light in times of crisis but also a mentor when it came to advancing my career. I am forever grateful for the knowledge that was passed on to me and the wider team. Both internal stakeholders and clients recommend him unequivocally.
Smile and say “yeah he was an interesting guy, I learned a lot” and move on
don’t trash people unless you and the people you’re talking too are “cool” like that
Say that "I worked with him for XYZ, he was very good at his job and great with clients, etc."
Not sure the context here - but you are smart in recognizing that it's a very, very small world. You should always, always be professional when talking about ex-coworkers, especially your boss - and, frankly, really anyone. Since you are incoming, from the looks of it, that is even more true.
I totally hear you there, but the team I worked at previously - they used to trash other people all the time. In fact, I know they screwed over another ex co-worker, when a potential hiring manager asked around when he was looking to switch jobs. So its like why should you say good things about them, when its known that the team is very toxic (its 100% driven by the MD on the team, he sets a really really bad culture) and doesn't hold back.
two wrongs do NOT make a right. Addinator and others have the right advice, you say how long you worked for him, were impressed by how he worked with clients, and be done with it.
here's my way of thinking about it - imagine that the person you are talking about will hear what you are about to say. if that makes you uncomfortable, don't say it. on the rare occasions I've been pressed by somebody when asked about someone I find objectionable, I say "I was taught a long time ago that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all, so I'm leaving it at that." that way, you indicate that the relationship wasn't great, but you did so with grace and professionalism, and if the person I was talking about was told that, I'd be comfortable with the blowback "WHAT?!?!?! YOU DIDNT SAY ANYTHING MEAN ABOUT ME HOW DARE YOU?!". I would NOT lead with that, I would only use that if you are pressed to give more of an answer.
there's exactly 0 upside in talking shit about the person, whereas there's a tremendous amount of downside
You could say he was fine, have your eyes dart around the room, and then abruptly change the subject. The more unrelated, the better.
I think that there are a lot of good practical comments here.
That said, at some point, we are enabling people who act very badly by keeping quiet about their behavior. Someone mentioned, well don't say something unless you would want the former boss to hear it. Unfortunately, this isn't ever turned around on the boss for some reason? Don't act in a way that you wouldn't want your client to know about it.
Personally, I take some version of the advice above. I try to be professional and not go into too many details, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to cover for a bad person. If that hurts my career, fine it hurts my career. If you want no chance of hurting your career, then say nothing.
you bring up great points. if you notice, I never said that you should embellish the truth nor did I say you should lie or "cover" for someone. I think it's perfectly fine to pick out a positive "great with clients" and then leave it at that. I don't think silence is covering, and I'd be completely against saying something that's just not true like you loved working for the guy.
maybe this is a philosophical difference, I believe that what goes around usually comes around, so it's not my job to play cop here. I also think in terms of payoffs. outing someone as an asshole when you're job hunting has no upside and possibly large downside. if it was a different scenario, say one of my mentees was interviewing for a job that would have them working for an ass, then I'd absolutely step in, but with the same tact and grace as before.
maybe when I attain "fuck you" money I'll change my tactics, but for now, silence is golden
NEVER said anything bad about a previous employer or coworker. It will make whoever you are interviewing/working with think that you may do the same to them in the future.
If none of the above advice convinces OP, this should be the most important reason to not shit talk.
OP, you can’t control how the person perceives your complaining about your ex-boss, and because they don’t know the ex-boss at all,they have no way of knowing if you are telling the truth or not, so there is a 50 / 50 chance you end up developing an initial reputation as a complainer.
As everyone said above, I would tread carefully.
I've heard that it can actually make YOU look bad, you are making serious accusations at someone who is not there to defend themselves. It's not the best look and can rub some poeple the wrong way. This is despite the fact that what you are saying may be true.
Unfortunately, sometimes you have to wait for some other form of karma to take its course.
"Hi. My previous boss was a douche."
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