Rant Alert.
I'm an immigrant. I'm in my 20s but what I'm starting to see at a workplace is that so many Americans in the same age group are just so f***ing entitled.
It's always about themselves, how they want to be treated, how they want to be addressed. Sure, you're smart and talented but like maybe learn to listen to others? Clearly you can learn from people who maybe have gone through more than you have?
I was taught to always go the extra mile and the "way I feel" as something to bring up to a therapist, not something you demand from coworkers and your boss. Also taught to learn about what you're not good at and find people who you can ask advice from. Instead of always thinking "Oh I know better. I can figure it out. You trying to help me sound condescending". Wtf...
But seriously, I want to get them to see the error of their ways or just find a better group of people who share the same virtue of humility. Where do I go?
Coddled upbringing from helicopter parents who mistook making their kids lifes easier as the solution to handling problems, instead of teaching them how to handle problems themselves.
When things are good people will still find reasons to be unhappy, and make up new things to cry and complain about. Even if their needs are met they will still be unhappy. This is a primrose path most walk down blissfully unaware of their own responsibility for their feelings because they cant look in the mirror and critically address themselves, as it's always easier to blame someone else than themselves. Even easier when media, politicians, peers, etc. are cheering you on in doing so.
These people have pretty much infested white collar jobs as oppose to blue collar/the trades. They dont know how good they have it, spending a mile in someone elses shoes doing real shit labor or in a country that lacks the institutions and opportunities America provides (basically all of them) will open your eyes. Spend that time on social media instead and it's woe is me.
Best bet is to stay away from them. Their mentality is contagious and will poison your views on work, life, happiness, fulfillment, etc.
Issue is that they can be productive. It's just how they want to be treated and this annoying constant demand for respect.
I was taught to internalize many things like how my co-workers make me feel.
My only and sole focus is the task at hand and how to solve it in the most efficient way as possible. But it's like all these people want all their voices heard amd they batch and moan and cry wolf everytime their voice isn't heard. I f***ing hate it. Maybe it's the company & I need to gtfo.
Hopefully you have some healthy outlets for that because that can also manifest in possibly negative ways. My background is somewhat similar and I do the same thing, but personally I find that I need to do something (e.g., gym, bike, talk about it with friends, comment on WSO, etc.) to relieve that pressure because it can build up. Otherwise sounds like you have the right idea.
Pre-addressing issues since I'm anticipating half the people will throw MS and the other half will throw SB.
Think this is a cultural divide btw "those who dare wins" mentality and a "balanced mindset mentality".
I enjoy being in an environment where people want to learn much as possible and grow much as possible. I thrive in it. In environments like this no one takes things personally (as long as there are no direct personal insults).
I hate the thought of having to constantly filter myself or learn how to speak in whatever is the most politically and diplomatically correct terms. I hate that people even demand to be treated in a certain way. I grew up learning "you don't get to be treated in a certain way until you've proven yourself". So this kind of behavior is just completely alien to me.
Call me a boomer or whatever. It's just how I grew up and what I prefer.
What you're saying just seems contradictory.
You say young people need to listen to people who have more experience than them, and they should not claim they know better. But you also say you "hate having to constantly filter yourself" and you prefer an environment where nobody takes anything personally.
So what if a manager makes a poor business decision? Should his subordinates address it? Or should they "filter themselves" and go along with the boss? It seems like you just want a toxic, "kick down, kiss up" environment where managers can be rude and say whatever you want to their employees without them taking it personally but employees always blindly follow the boss.
There's a deal with the situation mindset and there's the how do you change the situation and influence people for your advantage mindset.
I want to bring a cultural change.
My old man taught me two things about respect. (1) You respect people, not titles and (2) that respect shouldn't just be freely given, it should be earned. That cuts both ways, I have to earn the respect of my peers and colleagues and they have to earn mine.
A Managing Director gets a 110% from me professionally, whatever time of day or night, I answer the call, bust my ass, go above and beyond, the whole nine yards. I'd like to think I'm a model professional. But they are also not entitled to my respect. I've been call entitled and disrespectful by one before because I stood up for myself and refused to be berated like I was their child.
So I don't know man, where do you draw the line between standing up for yourself and entitlement. It's an open ended question and the answer depends on which side of the line you are.
I know what you mean with this, and maybe I'm old-fashioned for this viewpoint, but I think both people and titles deserve respect, or at least some level of formality. People others personally like and respect more will naturally command more of their attention, but it's also important to respect your CEO or professor or parent, or whomever based on their position relative to you. A lot of people do hide behind titles, especially incompetent middle mgmt types, but sometimes it's important to look as if you're not insubordinate. A good team member will tell their manager they're doing something wrong, and the manager should respect the worker for it.
Maybe that's a very traditionalist view, but I think respect is very important to success, both professionally and otherwise (although a lot of people succeed without it).
I agree with you 100%. Where I differ is that I view giving respect (for lack of a better word) to titles, to my employer, to clients, is being a model professional, giving 110% and delivering results. Being insubordinate is not professional. The point I was trying to make is that professionalism has to flow both ways. I won't be insubordinate but I also wont' stand for open beratement and insults of me or my team, which is not uncommon.
A specific managing director or just any/all unless they prove they don't deserve it otherwise?
I'm a millennial that grew up with technology, but I'm also old enough to remember the world before the internet. Gen-Z was raised to be entitled even more than millennials. I think the internet and technology definitely contributed to Gen-Z's entitlement in America. With technology, the whole world literally revolves around you. You have your Instagram, your youtube channel, your Netflix, your Facebook page, etc. You are the center of the world. Even the searches that come up when you google something are catered to you, and they're different than the next person's. Any opinion you may have is echoed in whatever little echo chamber you belong to. Unless you go out of your way to get away from the technology and seek different perspectives, you may not even figure out that everything you see is being catered to you because the algorithm has figured out what you want to see. Technology makes you think you're the most important person in the world.
Then like someone else said, you have all these helicopter parents that brainwash their kids into thinking they're the most amazing and special person on the planet. If you get a bad grade, it's ok. Mommy will make the teacher change the grade, and everyone deserves a participation trophy. Even a lot of video games are set up to make it feel like everyone is good. They're making so many things easier so everyone can succeed. If you don't like how you look then there's a filter for you until you can afford surgery. No one wants to feel bad ever. They want to cancel adversity instead of overcoming it.
There is relatively very little adversity in America today. I mean, if all you know is this society, then you'll think it's really tough, but if you remember how America used to be, then you'll see how much easier things are. American Gen-Z kids grew up in a relatively comfortable world where everything revolved around them. Don't get me wrong, the world isn't perfect for them and they have their own problems. But things are a lot more comfortable than they used to be.
Before the internet, your parents didn't want to see you hanging inside all day if you didn't have school. They kicked you out of the house until it got dark. These days parents think if you leave the house you're going to get kidnapped, shot, abused, or fail out of school if you're not doing 1000 math problems every night. If you wanted to see something on TV before the internet, then you better be home when it starts, or you will miss it. Now everything is on demand. I don't know how a kid couldn't believe the world doesn't revolve around them if they don't have a different reference point. The only reasons I don't think the world revolves around me is that the world let me know I wasn't shit before technology started telling me everything revolves around me, my likes and dislikes. And I can have whatever I want whenever I want. My parents also didn't believe in participation trophies. They made sure I knew the world wasn't going to give af about me just for breathing and participating. If that's all I knew I would probably feel just as entitled to having everything I wanted whenever I wanted all the time. I would probably be walking around everywhere like, "Do you know who I am!?" too. Every kid these days thinks they're a celebrity, influencer, and the most intelligent and beautiful person on the planet. How could you not?
The kids not leaving home thing is so true. Heard a lot from parents with Fortnite craze few years back that parents are fine with their kids playing games all the time because it lets them know where they are.
Really a shame. You are right that it used to be parents saying GTFO out of the house especially if you were just watching TV, playing computer games, on internet.
Preach!
A large part of it is the overall watering down of education. Often public funding is tied to the number of students who graduate, and hence the standards continued to be lowered so that more money is obtained. The incentives are wrong, and moving away from a quality education.
In college, this issue continues to get worse.
https://www.gradeinflation.com/
Some other visuals for the Ivy Leagues:
https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/9/10/6132411/chart-grade-inflation-in-t…
https://www.browndailyherald.com/article/2022/04/brown-grade-inflation-…
And Here is a broader summary of the Ivy Leagues + semi-targets + decent state schools from 2012
https://chrisblattman.com/blog/2012/09/21/why-we-should-give-into-grade…
The main takeaway from this is that college has become significantly easier, as it has taken the customer service route of maxmizing enrollment as opposed to producing the best grads. People are acting arrogant on the job, in part because they've never had difficult academic challenges (which is distinct from the financial challenges piece that MonkeyNoise alluded to earlier). They think they know it all, because so far everything has been a breeze for them. High school was a joke and their education at a top college in one of the most prestigious universities in the country wasn't all that difficult either. So hence the skills such as being able to solve and navigate challenging problems with help and input from TA's/Professors and otther students is a skill that is lacking, because they've never needed guidance on anything before. And in the case they do end up in that one hard course, the rise of Pass/No Pass is only growing at top schools (which should show an even larger increase in grade inflation than I posted above), so there doesn't have to be any responsibility or accountability for doing poorly in a class.
A very, recent specific example of this where the university catered to it's students as a customer service instead of faculty is with the firing of a renowned lecturer (40+ years experience in elite universities), Maitland Jones because students complained his class was too hard (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyu-professor-gets-fired-over-gra…). Note, I tried to pick a fairly balanced source on this, but you can also find articles on FOX/CNN/NYTimes, etc.
Totally agree, even as a 20-year-old.
It's good for business to give your student's high GPAs. Whether or not that's right is a different story, but it is good for business.
Yes, and I'm saying that education being viewed as a business is flawed, as it has led to the quality of the graduates deteriorating.
Maybe they’re pissed the fuck off rent and housing prices have skyrocketed while wages have not been anywhere close to catching up
Do you ever have anything value additive to a conversation? Sincerely, I've seen your comments and they're mostly regurgitated party-line nonsense with financial jargon sprinkled in here and there. Like, do you truly believe that people act entitled because of housing/wage ratio alone? Because if so, my friend, you've got a LOT of learning and growing up to do.
What on earth does my comment have to do with politics dumbass
Fr there're so many people complaining about things and not doing anything to change their situation. No one is giving their 110% in anything anymore and just half assing it all. Also makes me laugh when they're talking about their jobs as if the jobs are supposed to give them self-actualization and if it doesn't they're not content.
I haven't noticed this irl tbh, most of the people around me who are my age give or take a couple years are hardworkers and don't complain. I sometimes think these threads are over exaggeration.
prob that's just human nature. Humans have always had arrogance and showing off.
Every generation complains about the new generation. There is nothing new here.
Except there is if you bothered to read OPs post. He’s saying his own generation is lazy and entitled
I think it's worth noting that it won't work out for them in the long run. So, they'll either change or their potential will be capped. However, you see similarities with the wealth-hoarding boomers.
If they are children of immigrants (parents came from a different country), I would give them the benefit of the doubt. This might be controversial to say, but most of these parents have totally fucked up their kids to the point of it being unfixable. This is just what I’ve observed from my friends and my own situation. Although we are now all in good careers, most of us need serious therapy.
This is also why I hesitate to ever have kids of my own because my greatest fear is to end up being even half as toxic as my parents.
A lot of the problems described in this thread are related to the declining social capital in the United States. Nobody in the 1940s thought the youth were entitled, and similarly nobody thought their elders were boomer misers.
What a stupid statement. You really think the generation that came of age in the Great Depression had no bitterness towards the people in power who caused it? 😂
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