Yea or Nay: Massive Bulk?
I've been on approximately maintenance calories for a little while now. Last night I was with some buddies, had a high-carb meal then got the best pump I've had in probably 3 years, and it felt incredible.
Wondering if I should go full bloat lord and do a massive bulk before I start full-time in January.
Does anyone here have advice or experience on this - be it nutritionally/training/otherwise? I've been fat before, so physically consuming however much food is no problem.
In most cases, bulking is an excuse to eat crap while still lifting. I thought it was debunked honestly and that you built the same amount of muscle by still just eating clean.
Bulking entails consuming calories above your maintenance level to achieve weight gain. Simply adhering to a clean diet won't lead to progress beyond your beginner gains unless you're inadvertently consuming a surplus of calories. There are three types of bulks:
Dirty bulk: You eat voraciously and source your calories from any available source, including fast food and junk food. (Typically 500 calorie surplus but some people decide to become slobs and not count their calories = eating at a much higher surplus/getting too fat. It’s easier to over eat when you are munching out on fast and junk food)
Clean bulk: You consume your staple diet foods, obtaining calories from healthy sources (limited junk food, typically 500 calories surplus)
Lean bulk: Similar to the clean bulk, but with a smaller calorie surplus relative to your maintenance needs (instead of the usual 500-calorie surplus, you aim for ~200).
For OP, I would caution against completing a bulk cycle just before starting full-time. Given the demanding hours of banking (ignore if you aren't doing ib/other similar wlb job), you might encounter difficulties in cutting down or maintaining muscle. It might be wiser to work towards a point by January where you can strive to maintain your progress (maintenance being the most manageable option while working in investment banking).
Not sure why the MS. Look up the difference in muscle building with bulking vs maintenance calories.
I’ve also known VERY few people that “bulk” with clean foods. Maybe its anecdotal. But in most cases, when people “bulk” they dirty bulk.
Just eat your maintenance and lift hard
Speaking from personal experience here:
I’ve always eaten clean and been seeing good results. Not shredded by any means but definitely filling out my frame well and been complimented on it a lot.
Still able to progressively overload (usually volume nowadays but sometimes weight) even after 1.5 years of lifting.
Buddies of mine have done bulks and cuts and they hate how they feel in both situations, although for different reasons. With me though, I always have good energy and it lets me eat as much as my body is capable of as long as I’m getting sufficient protein.
Again all personal experience though so maybe the science says something different.
If you can accurately sustain a ~100-200 cal surplus over the long-term, of course that'd be ideal, but 99% of the population won't be able to do so reliably, hence the need to bump those numbers up (and potentially gain a little bit of excess fat) to ensure you're building meaningful amounts of tissue. Try not to go overboard, but if you really want to make progress without having to weigh out everything you put into your body literally to the gram, you need more of a surplus than 200 cals a day.
Also people still don't understand "clean" vs. "dirty" bulks. Food source isn't what we're talking about here, which is what most people mistakenly think. It's really just "lean" bulking at a very low surplus vs. a very large surplus to ensure you aren't leaving gains on the table (dirty meaning you don't really care about the fat gain). For the reasons said above, the ideal place to be is probably somewhere in between which would wind up at a 400-500 cal surplus.
For all of the proponents of maingaining, I challenge you to find someone in real life that has put on meaningful size (not talking influencers) that hasn't done a real bulk.
Agreed
Correct, glad someone knows
Have done a bulk before, and got way too fat, took forever to lose the weight and felt bad the entire time due to the type of food I was eating (literally just the highest calorie items I could find). Regardless of how you bulk, do it in a way where you are still eating clean food, just with an increased calorie count (300-500 surplus a day).
One thing worth mentioning, you really don't want to feel like a "bloat lord" at all when starting out. Being overweight and having to use a lot of energy digesting too many calories really takes a toll on your productivity levels and mental clarity. Now that I have tried a few different diets, I am really careful regarding what I am eating so that I don't crash every day after I eat lunch. If I were you, I would just do a short calorie surplus for the next ~3 months, then come late Dec or early Jan I would start my maintenance calories again to get used to it prior to starting full-time.
Appreciate the input. I definitely meant "bloat lord' in more of a metaphorical sense, but I think I've definitely been flat from a lack of carbs. Will probably just dd a preworkout bowl of pasta or something.
Current college athlete here. If you dont give af and just wanna be absolutely yoked then yeah do it. But you are way better off clean bulking moderately increasing your calories. Dirty bulking will eventually make you start to feel like shit after those first few months of sick lifts and has some serious inverse side affects with insulin resistance and hormones that affect everyday life.
Dirty bulked in my early 20s (consumed a ton of lean red meat and ate a lot of pastas). I recently went back to the gym in recent months with a stricter diet. There's no way I can maintain that in my 30s now with my metabolism. I eat healthy 5 days a week and usually squeeze in 2-3 cheat meals a week. Unfortunately in my 30s, I've realized my gains are not nearly as noticeable / quick as it was in my 20s (used to be able to max out a few machines at the gym).
If you had it once you can do it again, there is no magic to gains. Metabolism is mostly just your activity levels and your body composition. Once you gain more muscle and lower body fat% you will automatically have higher metabolism because your body needs to work harder to maintain the muscle, and you will therefore burn more calories whether at rest or moving around. There is nothing dirty about the lean red meat and pasta you suggested. It's just how much of it you're consuming. Red meat is still plenty healthy and doesn't make a diet less "clean." A dirty bulk is just a higher surplus. I can eat big macs and still be within my calories and it'd still be a lean bulk if I want it to
You can do a lot with timing of carbs and pre-workout pump supplements without going full bulk. Pump Apocalypse and some Rice Krispie treats right before the gym gives massive pumps.
Ok and this is absolutely irrelevant to the question. This is why it's so hard for beginners to find good info on building muscle. People just say stuff.
Read his comment, he said he went crazy at dinner and ate a ton of carbs and then got the best pump of his life, leading him to thinking he should always eat like that.
I’m not really adding anything new to the points above but just sharing my own experience.
I bulked up pretty nicely before starting to work full time. I didn’t clean bulk, which is another issue, but in any case work made it extremely hard to sustain my commitment to going to the gym. I think clean bulking is also difficult during work hours since food options can be somewhat limited and you won’t get your 3,000 calories in by eating salad. I was in ER so it’s a bit different but I always felt that the worst part about the job was not the hours but the fact that you need to be ready to respond and deal with stuff 24/7. It was very difficult to get a good pump in when I was thinking about work and worried that I might be missing a call.
The bottom line for me was that i would try to stick to a realistic program that i can manage while starting to work. Things get easier with time as you either move into a better WLB role, or have enough “seniority” where people know you’re hard working and are okay with you taking an hour down time for the gym.
Check out some bodybuilding videos on YouTube there are many guides
Do not do this. I decided to bulk and lift very very heavy, ended up giving myself 2x hernias and have had a chronic health issue now tied to one of them...
The surgeon told me 100% tied to deciding to put on weight and lift very heavy. Both are triggers for hernias.
200-400 calorie surplus, 1.5G protein for every lb body weight (or lean muscle mass), cardio 2-3x a week, lift 4-5x a week. Push Pull Legs.
Up a healthy 25 lbs this year, looking for another 5-10 by EOY.
The nerds on this website always hate on me for bringing this up, but do carnivore for your bulk. Start with like 3lbs of 75/25 red meat per day and progressively overload your intake until you hit like 4-5lbs.
You will be fucking jacked with minimal fat gain. Optimal human diet.
Care to further elaborate?
You're saying to just eat red meat, and what's the 75/25 split supposed to be for
Wasn't clear on that either
75/25 would be the leanness of the meat I assume. So 75% lean would contain 25% fat.
I personally choose the leanest to save calories for other things so I go with a 93/7 beef or ground turkey.
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