boys, do NOT get married. Seriously.

Gents, do NOT get married. Seriously. There's nothing in it for you. Seriously.

Worst case - woman divorces you, takes the kids and half your shit.

Best case - you stay married and have to live with a shrew for the rest of your life sleeping with just one chick. No one is fun to be with after a few years. No one. The shit piles up higher and deeper.  

EDIT> I've thought a lot about what you guys have said.  Perhaps marriage is not the problem. Without marriage I would not have had our two beautiful boys who mean more to me than life itself. The problem is that I played myself. I was not true to what my own needs were, and was too accommodating. I should not have asked my wife to move in so early. I should not have settled. So perhaps a more balanced approach is to just wait until you're mid-30s before getting married. Learn from my mistakes.

Most Helpful

Lol "other industries forum."

Joking aside, I think that not marrying and sleeping with many women sounds fun at the surface, but in reality is a depressing life. Eventually you'll realize that getting strange pussy isn't that important and that something is missing in your life. Most people have an urge to start a family and raise children of their own. Whether you talk to a warehouse worker or a F500 CEO, I think most would say that the thing they care most about in their life, where they get most of their life's purpose and fulfillment, is from their family. I don't think there is any greater feeling than finding a bitch you love and starting something with her.

And if all else fails, just get a prenup lol.

It's as real as can be, and as serious as a heart attack.  This site is all about "which watch is most prestigious," and other bullshit.  Marriage is the single most important financial decision you will make in your lifetime, and simultaneously the singular most important happiness-related decision you will make in your life. It's a serious question as to whether you do get married, when to get married, and to whom.  The reference to Rollo Tomassi above is spot on - not because I buy into all the red pill stuff wholesale, but he makes some very good points that are worth considering. You want to date around a lot in your youth and either (1)  not marry, or (2) delay and vett extensively, and marry only in your mid-30s or later after you really know yourself. And I mean *really* know yourself.  Why? Prenups rarely hold water, and in most states you're going to get butt-raped anyway. And once there's kids in the picture... man, you don't know pain until you have your heartstrings tugged between living with a shrew and risking separation from your kids. And while there's some nonsense on this site about "how do I talk to a girl" which drives me batty, I still wanted to raise the topic here, because marriage is the  You all know the divorce statistics. But you likely don't fully appreciated just how F'ed you're going to get in a divorce.  It's like saying "I'll bet you half my stuff and my own kids we'll be together forever."  

Honestly my own experience doesn't matter. A large portion of my male friends are divorced and lost both family and treasure. Nothing breaks a man's heart like fathering kids and having them taken away.  I'm simply firing a warning shot so you guys take a serious look at the downside scenarios of marriange.

Now, I can share my own experience, but honestly my own case doesn't matter. I have it better than most, but it's not great either.  In my early 20s I had been dating a few girls, but mostly had focused on getting into b-school and finance. But after b-school my options improved markedly and the few girls I dated were smart and beautiful. One girl was a hedge fund girl who was a smoking 8 and sweet, and probably the smartest person I'd ever met (ranked in the top 3 of all CFA testers globally in her year). Another was a gorgeous professional model (TV and print ads for big brands) who was also incredibly smart and on full scholarship to grad school in finance and spoke 3 languages fluently.  Both girls were driven, beautiful, sweet and wifey material. 

But when I moved to a new city and got lonely I ended up spending more time with another local girl of a much more humble background. And I made the incredibly dumb move of relatively early asking her to move in with me, just so I wouldn't be so socially isolated. Now she was a very nice girl, and ok pretty (but not beautiful). No red flags, no real body count. I felt "better to have a low-drama 6 than a bitchy 10".   But she had no professional prospects and wasn't either driven or up to anything. Very different than the other girls I had been dating. Big mistake. I didn't know the larger implication of moving in together, I just kind of thought "she's sweet and I'm alone in this city, and busy as hell in PE. This way there will be someone there when I get home."  And I felt I could change her and motivate her to have something going in her life.  But of course I couldn't. People don't change.  And now, fast forward 10+ years, she's a stay at home mom, put on a lot of weight, hasn't *ever* seen the inside of a gym, and aged very poorly. Her attitude and demeanor has soured. I've got to carry the financial burden of a family in a HCOL city alone. We have no real things to discuss among ourselves other than "dude, please help scrape poop off the butt of Baby#2".  I missed the best dating years, didn't explore sufficiently, and the really attractive and smart girls are now no longer accessible - not because they're not out there and interested, but because now I'm off the market and fooling around is neither moral not prudent (dude's will always get caught).  And now, while things aren't terrible, they aren't great either. That sweet 6 has become a bitchy 5.  Wife gets jealous all the time if I have female friends. And I guarantee after a decade even the nicest girl going to drive you nuts and piss you off on the daily. Guaran-fucking-tee it. So while my post title was inflammatory and hyperbolic, there's a lot of truth to it. So, I count my blessings that after 10+ years of marriage we've not killed each other, and we've got 2 kids. But there's no romance, the love is dead, and I know I'll never feel the touch of an attractive woman again. And I can't leave, because I've a responsibility, and because I'll lose everything in the process. I'm sure I sound shallow, but forever is a LONG LONG time, especially to be trapped in a loveless marriage, where I'm just the provider and butt wiper. We're now just in it for the kids, at least for 18 years until Baby#2 leaves.

I don't wanna be a dick cuz your situation sounds really tough. But how is this an indictment of marriage as opposed to just some really poor decisions on your part? Totally serious question. It sounds like from the beginning you knew you were super settling with this person, so this actually indirectly is a huge POS move on your part because you were/are essentially leading your partner on from the get-go. Rule #1 in any relationship is don't lead people on, waste their time, or make them feel like second class citizens (i.e. they are "beneath" you). Obviously your wife is going to treat you poorly and not care. Everyone deserves to be with someone who holds them in the highest regard....and you deserve the same for yourself with a partner that will make you happy.

You basically ruined your own life, and the craziest part is that it seems like you knew that it would come to this from the get-go.    

Hey man, sorry for the tough spot you're in. Is there no way you can leave her and still keep the kids?

Btw I'm the one who wrote the "most helpful" comment above, but frankly, I'm just a young and idealistic prospect, while you're an adult who's clearly experienced a lot more in life. You story is a big wake-up call that young people like me can learn from to become more cautious men. Thank you for sharing.

divorce her ass kids will suffer regardless 

at least you'll "touch a beautiful women" again

Sounds like someone had a bad Christmas. If you're an Executive Director like you say you are and you still think sleeping around with different chicks is fun, maybe, just maybe you're doing something wrong. Marriage isn't for everyone, but it's a bit of an overstatement to say that there's nothing in it for us guys.

I think it varies from person to person. Some people aspire to be remembered in the history books for their contribution to the society (or the contrary), whereas others would be content with marrying a girl and having a child that bars them them from their goals. Obviously there are exceptions to the previous statement, but the modern society is different from antiquity and unless you are already wealthy or close to, marriage is going to add much more complexity to the situation to the point that you might not even remember yourself as the man who ever had any goals. Steve Schwarzman gives an example of how his father could have easily scaled his business to all of the US, but he was content with what he had and never did. On the other hand, as we all know Schwarzman is one of the giants in global PE.

While my only 'urge' is to add significant value to this society before I die and maybe adopt and teach some kids, some people have the urge of maintaining a successful family. Nothing wrong with either goals, but I would not go on to generalize women or men's idea of happy life to the extent that you are.

I'm of course being hyperbolic. I love my kids. I don't like my wife at all though.  Marriage isn't off the table for all men but it's SUPER risky and should be done only after you're 35, have a career, and truly know yourself. Get a pre-nup, and be 150% sure she is the one you want to build a life around. Do NOT settle. Better to be single than married for 90% of all men. 

I believe in this for the most part, always wondered why people rush into finding a relationship only to be divorced 10years later. You’re better off playing the field and being single for longer until you find that one true love that you know you can stick by and that she’ll stick by you. Was a great read anyways, thanks.

Friends of friends and the gym are 1 and 2 from my experience. Maybe not in that exact order, but still. To be a bit more exact, the types of friends you made after you became an adult could be more relevant, because at that point you got those friends from having similar interests, not from just being the same age, in the same circle etc.

Hey brofesor, think you’re a Maubossin guy. I’m a big fan of mental models and one I’ve relied on is his work showing that the Industry is responsible for 45% or so of the return and Mgmt is another 40-45%.

I think roughly applying this framework to relationships, marriage as a vehicle I feel is the Industry (aka plenty of long running studies on happiness / contentment show that you’re happier as a married person vs single or divorced). That said, there’s now the Mgmt portion which is roughly almost as important — this is about finding the right person with the right values (and perhaps having the right ones yourself). So I’d sum it up and say both are important — marriage is the best vehicle for maximizing LT contentment but you must also marry the right person with the right value system as the other piece to make it work. Just my two cents

Some of my thoughts:

1.1. Economically I agree that we're giving the lesser-earning partner leverage against us. Given that you had a family, I think the trade-off could be worth some of the risk. If you're a director in PE then I'm sure you have the highest of expectations for the educational standards and extracurriculars of your children. You wouldn't risk their wellbeing just because there was a middle-man (your ex) taking a slice of the pie.

1.2. There must've been some form of advantage to you as a high-earning individual from a tax perspective that allowed you to more quickly accumulate wealth from being married. I'm not sure how much added-value this advantage would bring and it's certainly nowhere near half of your theoretical pre-divorce net-worth, but it's another partially offsetting factor.

2. Monogamy can have advantages - I understand the prospect of "One day I might be feeling a blonde, another day it might be a brunette", but if your significant other was providing what you wanted (read: relationship has good communication and there's a submissiveness to her), it could save you from the troubles of fishing for those things in the dating market. 

To me personally, as a person from a country with barely any religion and marriage not being a relevant institution since it doesn't bring noticeable tax advantages, I occasionally find myself considering it, but quickly reconsider since I can't envision "the feeling of having a wife" being that much more special than "the feeling of having a GF". 

I'm witnessing a lot of divorces now, and I would just caution you all to choose wisely and take all the time you need to decide, because when these women get petty and vindictive on you it's no joke.  I've watched grown men breakdown in tears in front of me.  

But on the flipside, my friends who are still married are either happy or pretty content.  Life may not be exciting but they love the routine, love their kids, and also love knowing that they can turn bald or carry a spare tire and still have someone around to put up with them.  So it all really comes down to who you pick.  


I’m saying be honest with yourself. If you’re physically a 5 you can’t marry higher than a 7. Or it likely won’t end well. Just keep it real with yourself and be realistic when it comes to a spouse. Or make an iron clad prenup.

People in their early 20s love to talk about how they hate marriage and never want to settle down but there is nothing more pathetic than a single guy in his 40s living alone, dating a revolving door of women who don't give a shit about them except their money and then tricking themselves into thinking that they're happy. It's even more pathetic when it's a woman who's single in her 40s as she's absolutely updateable at that point. 

So you made lots of money and have a big house? Who cares? You gonna live alone in it and watch movies on your couch or play video games alone as a 40 year old? You worked hard and grinded and now you're rich? What are you gonna do with the money? Spend it on meaningless trips to places alone so you can have mindless one-night stands with some random girls? Wow, so fulfilling and mature! Just wait until you're 50 and still single, with no children, it will be even more pathetic 

Ok sure, but I feel like no one read the damn story OP wrote above. How the fuck does that not scare the living shit out of you? His life is nearly fucked. I agree with your points in essence but the context of modern reality needs to be taken into account too. Look at upsides and downsides. Downsides of the life you describe above is what boredom? Downsides of what OP describes of his situation is a damn nightmare let's be honest with ourselves here. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but don't be so dismissive of people not wanting to take that risk cmon...

For starters, you can have other family besides a spouse and kids. 

Unmarried people in their 40s/50s are less miserable than their counterparts who are divorced (or getting there) by losing >50% of their assets, inheriting liabilities of a spouse, and having messed up offspring. Not to mention all the lost time.

You may love your kids, but they're still a pain in the ass. Social media, drugs, wide spread violence, inflation, socioeconomic inequality, and lack of morals have made it less than ideal to bring new life into this world/society right now. 

Generally, it's easier for a person to marry (usually a joyous event) vs. a married person looking to get divorced. 

An unmarried person comes with less baggage than a divorcee. Or that's the negative stigma/perception anyway. By the way, once divorced, you're more likely to go through subsequent divorces.

It can be argued that the divorce rate is exaggerated, but it's still pretty high. Doesn't include people in sham marriages who don't want to lose half their shit, are in it for the kids, are separated, but fucking other people, don't want to show/face failure, etc. 

For better or worse, everything in the world is changing. This isn't your dad's era. People don't have landlines anymore. People don't have cable TV anymore. People are questioning the value of a college education. Remote work is rapidly becoming the norm. Back in the day, marriage was so people could get laid. Morals and views on religion have changed.

Even strongest, long-term couples argue, bicker, and wish for change time-to-time. Not being married and/or not having kids is perfectly fine, especially these days; this will become only more common, not less. See the trend in average age of first marriage.

Buckle up.

Lol. I love this bit about 'pathetic' single 40 year olds. I really don't understand the romanticism people have with being married and having kids when all you need to do is open the fkn internet and hear the bitter stories of people getting divorced and in hopeless marriages. I for one would rather be single forever than ever get divorced one time. Even more so, as a single guy with lots of money, you have so many options in front of you: 1) adopt as many kids as you want and hire full time staff/get family to help raise them 2) be the most awesome uncle your nieces/nephews will ever have 3) date around and make it as fun as possible - lots of dating options for rich, successful, and networked guys that most (99%) of guys will never have 4) spend time with other single or unmarried friends and have crazy fun, and the list goes on. This attitude of 'you must get married or you'll be lonely and pathetic and sad' is frankly not realistic considering the number of fucked up kids out there thanks to shitty marriages and divorces, creating a perpetual cycle of fucked up humans. 

If you're happy living in a village in the middle of nowhere, and spending most of your days fishing and farming with your kids, good for you. Personally, I enjoy experiences and material things that I didn't always have access to going up. I absolutely would put the extra money to more vacations which I would genuinely enjoy. I would play video games which I enjoy. I would try out new food which I enjoy. I would partake in other cultural events which I enjoy. And assuming you are relatively successful, the dating market is still very accessible even at late 30s/early 40s so your point about only being able to experience shallow relationships is moot. 


"mileage" means the fucks girls have in their system, for some it can be 300 fucks for some 600 fucks

this is just like the mileage of cars after which they are not worthy of driving

so when their mileage becomes 90% it's better to leave them 

Even fucking Kim Kardashian for the 100th time would feel like fucking a cow

if you study anthropology and  evolutionary biology you will see that humans were practicing polygamy for a long time and monogamous relationships don't really work because from a biological standpoint you want to spread seed in as many women as possible 

FYI to the bluepills in this thread. you need to read The Rational Male, even if you don't think you will agree with all of it (I don't), most of these topics are covered - when you should move in with a female, settling for less etc. Too many guys have been influenced by RomComs.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #1

Frame is everything. Always be aware of the subconscious balance of whose frame in which you are operating. Always control the Frame, but resist giving the impression that you are.

Iron Rule of Tomassi # 2

NEVER, under pain of death, honestly or dishonestly reveal the number of women you’ve slept with or explain any detail of your sexual experiences with them to a current lover.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #4

NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren’t married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #5

NEVER allow a woman to be in control of the birth.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #6

Women are utterly incapable of loving a man in the way that a man expects to be loved.

In its simplicity this speaks volumes about the condition of Men. It accurately expresses a pervasive nihilism that Men must either confront and accept, or be driven insane in denial for the rest of their lives when they fail to come to terms with the disillusionment.

Women are incapable of loving men in a way that a man idealizes is possible, in a way he thinks she should be capable of.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7

It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #8

Always let a woman figure out why she wont ƒuck you, never do it for her.

An integral part of maintaining the feminine imperative as the societal imperative involves keeping women as the primary sexual selectors. As I’ve detailed in many prior comments and posts, this means that a woman’s sexual strategy necessitates that she be in as optimized a condition as her capacity (attractiveness) allows for her to choose from the best males available to satisfy that strategy.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #9

Never Self-Deprecate under any circumstance. This is a Kiss of Death that you self-initiate and is the antithesis of the Prize Mentality. Once you’ve accepted yourself and presented yourself as a “complete douche” there’s no going back to confidence with a woman. Never appeal to a woman’s sympathies. Her sympathies are given by her own volition, never when they are begged for — women despise the obligation of sympathy. Nothing kills arousal like pity. Even if you don’t seriously consider yourself pathetic, it never serves your best interest to paint yourself as pathetic. Self-Depreciation is a misguided tool for the AFC, and not something that would even occur to an Alpha.

Only one person in my extended family has been divorced / remarried, and she has been married to her husband for over 20 years now. My immediate and extended family have strong family values - I see my cousins several times a year (not just at holidays) and we all live within an hour or so of each other (for the most part). This is for both my dad and mom’s side.

I have an aunt who has stood by my uncle as he suffers from a debilitating disease - this is just one, albeit the most extreme, example of a strong woman who is everything a wife/mother should be.

A lot of relationships seem to be fucked because both parties want it to be perfect, but perfect from their own point of view. Nobody wants to work on problems together - it’s easier to blame your partner and move on to the next victim.

I see a lot of posts on here bashing women and saying that marriage is a scam, but I disagree to the strongest extent possible. Every single male figure I would consider a role model is in a loving marriage with kids. Love is more than just sex - it’s putting the needs of those you care about above your own personal needs.

I’ve never dated anyone and I’m in my early 20’s. I’ve ran away from every girl that has ever expressed starting a relationship with me because I realized I only liked them for the sex. I have a few friends that are girls that I would 100% date if I were more physically attracted to them. Finding a partner is a numbers game, and I refuse to believe every woman alive is thot. I understand society changes, but generation after generation is always complaining about the same things. Humans are still humans, and there will always be those with morals and those without.

In terms of finding a girl worth pursuing an actual relationship with, you’ve gotta play the numbers game. Dating apps are full of thots - I’ve made some friends I didn’t hook up with from Bumble and Hinge, but if she’s on Tinder she’s a whore. Dating apps and social media are not real life. Hit up gyms, go to parks, just put yourself out there in social situations and see what happens.