Laid off and hiring manager wants to talk to last manager
Was laid off and was not on good terms with my manager. I have received an offer at a new organization, but the hiring manager wants to talk to my previous manager. I offered to line up calls with managers I had prior to this one, at other organizations, but the hiring manager wants to talk to my last manager. I’m worried my last manager might tank my reference as we were not on good terms. Any recommendations on how to go about this?
The word “manager” can be interpreted quite liberally I think. It doesn’t necessarily have to be your formal HR manager (aka the org chart manager), but can also be another senior you worked with very frequently (aka your “practical” day to day manager).
At my first gig, my formal manager on paper was a MD, but for reference checks I provided contact details of my Director who I spent 85% of my time with. No issues there.
It's a huge potential lawsuit / defamation issue if your prior manager says anything negative... Most large firms do verification through a third party and do not allow direct manager checks because they are really not allowed to say anything besides confirming you worked there.
I agree with above though, pick another senior. Give them a heads up a reference check is coming. Kind of a red flag the new place is so insistent on talking to your manager, it's not a common thing given most people know they can't really talk.
Not how it works. Everyone does references before hiring someone. They’ll ask about attitude and work ethic and analytics/modeling and competence. What development areas did you flag for them to work on. Why doesn’t he work there any more etc. Ans any idiosyncratic quesrions they may have - eg seems like he’s not super into PE do you think he’s in it for the long haul, seems like a smart guy but has a very mediocre GPA from a mediocre school where does he rank vs his peers on intellectual horsepower, etc.
Most people cherry pick their references, so the checks are almost always glowing and effusive. So typically an okay reference check is a bad one.
Need someone who will champion got you.
To OP, are there other reasonably sr people you can get to stand in for your actual manager?
If I ask for a reference and get an HR mgr it’s a red flag.
for what its worth, ive done this several times over my career for people i used to manage, and even if I thought the person was a terrible worker I ALWAYS lied and told the person how great they were.
everyone deserves a new shot at a different place. just feels like really bad karma to try and crater that in my opinion.
Your thought process totally make sense but don't you also feel bad for sticking that other manager/team with someone who is a terrible performer? Feels like either way someone gets short end of the stick.
Ehh..who other firms hire is not really his / her responsibility. By the time offer is out and they ask to speak with former managers they new guys should have already firmed a solid opinion and have extended an offer for a reason. Punishing people for prior bad performance / bad blood sounds pretty unethical and unfair (especially true for juniors)
yea i've done this too. No sense in ruining someone's career.
FWIW, this is a bit of a slippery slope. Your personal reputation is on the line with the other firm. If the reference is completely underwhelming versus your flowery review, you're going to risk either looking like a really poor judge of talent or just disingenuous.
While I'm all for loyalty to those whom you've worked with, I wouldn't discount that you're probably providing a reference to someone more senior and influential in the industry than the departing analyst/associate. While I absolutely wouldn't tank anyone, there's also fairly simple ways to just 'say less' and let the new firm figure things out on their own.
No. 99% of the time I don't know these people. My personal reputation is not on the line.
Some of you folks in this subthread are angels compared to me.
I’ve had the misfortune of working with some truly terrible humans and I won’t hesitate to crush them if anyone asks me for a reference. I’d be doing the hiring shops a favour by advising them to avoid these clowns.
If these people are not juniors (e.g., VP+) with consistent bad behaviour etc. then it makes more sense I think as they do have a track record to show by then
I mean, if they demonstrated bad character rather than just incompetence I absolutely agree. But especially for juniors, it's fairly often the case that someone who sucks can still excel at a new role...
That sounds pretty miserable. Your tone reads as though you’d relish destroying someone else’s career — which ironically, is exactly what a terrible human would do. You should probably figure out some way to make your peace with it.
Everyone asks before they put you don’t as a reference. If you really don’t like the person and can’t bear to tell a fib, tell them you may not be best reference since “I only worked with you when you were quite green” or something else benign but telling.
You do your way (turn the other cheek), and I’ll do things my way. Live and let live.
The particular individual I have in mind called a 1st year analyst a Neanderthal in front of the whole floor (screamed with spit flying in his face), asked an colleague from Nigeria if he has Ebola, and got sent to management training (by Americas head of IBD) after successive HR complaints.
So yes, I will crush him if the opportunity arises (I’m already ghosting him whenever he tried to pitch me deals).
Get a sack.
You worked with a meanie? Do you want a trauma therapist on site?
A racist who asked a black VP if he had Ebola and a sexist who groped our Exec Assistant at a team dinner (and never suffered consequences for it) . So yes, I will crush him.
Maybe your wife and/or daughter will get lucky and work with him one day. Then you can ask them to “get a sack” and ask for an onsite therapist.
Times have changed, Harvey Weinstein. What’s acceptable 15 years ago isn’t acceptable now. Get with the program and pray your kids/grandkids have better bosses than you did.
Surprised he wasn't fired, he should have been on the spot
Vero repudiandae ducimus fugiat quas a. Aliquam vitae odio sapiente.
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