Thanksgiving / Christmas Week WFH "Norms"
What is the PE industry norm for WFH / visiting family during the week of Thanksgiving / Christmas? Recently took a job at a West coast firm and during offer negotiations, had told the main partner I would like to be able to work remotely from the east coast (where family is) during the holidays, which he did not challenge.
Now on the job, getting pointed feedback from the MDs that I need to be here until the Tuesday before Thanksgiving.
Debating if this is a hill worth dying on, ignoring their warnings and seeing what happens, or heeding their advice. Feels like something they shouldn't have a say in. What's the point of making all this money if you can't even see your family?
Am I out of line here? Note: I'm an experienced mid-level PE professional, not a 1st year Associate.
How did they word the feedback? Are there specific meetings in office that Monday/Tuesday, or was it just a hardo comment of "we expect to see you through Tuesday"?
I'm leaning that you play naive and say something like "Are there specific in-person meetings that you'd like me to join that week? As I think I alluded to a few months back, I planned to be remote for the holiday starting Monday of that week but plan to work West coast hours and be broadly available M/T/W. Let me know if I need to change my travel plans." Too harsh??
You guys are so passive aggressive. Just plainly state, I was told I could work remote during the holidays. Did this change? Thanks.
Do you have enough vacation days to take those days and then just dial-in into a meeting if you’re needed? Then next year you’ll have a better feel for how the firm operates
If truly the feedback is that you “need” to be there in person until Tuesday, then it is what it is. Even if it was agreed upon during interviews, it will still look poorly on you if you dip out early when no one else in the firm has, particularly because you're a new hire. It's much easier in the long run to make a good impression first and then be a little rebellious later (you're simply implicitly/subconsciously or explicitly given more latitude after you've already proven yourself). There will be many "political battles" you'll have to fight over the course of your time at the firm (be it vacations, promotions, advocating for deals, etc etc).
I also think as a mid-level, what you do has a bigger impact than if you were a 1st year associate. Having to make lateral moves as a mid-level and up (e.g., because you developed a bad reputation early on) is a real bitch. You're always going to be leaving carry on the table, there are fewer opportunities for experienced mid level hires. And IMO, the worst is you have to prove yourself all over again at a new firm cause sweat equity does not transfer over between firms (it's one thing to be motivated to prove yourself when you're early in your career, it's another thing when you're already "successful" and still having to prove yourself). As a 1st year associate, it's almost like who cares (a little facetious here), you still have plenty of time and opportunities to make a switch without as much impact, and most associates end up leaving to another firm sooner or later anyways (or out the industry all together).
If you're trying to optimize your career (at least during this stage of your career), you're honestly better off just sticking around for Thanksgiving, play it by ear for Christmas, and then see what you can get away with next year once you've proven yourself. It would be naive to think that "they have no say" given they are your employer after all (they might not be able to physically force you to stay, but it doesn't mean it won't impact your career at the firm).
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That said, do I think you (or anyone) should prioritize work over family? That's really more of a personal decision. We know if you're in PE for the long haul, you're going to be sacrificing your personal life many many times over. Plenty of people have ultimately left PE because to your point, what is the point of making all this money if you can't even see your family/friends/have personal interests/etc etc.
For what it's worth, I was a mid level who voluntarily left the PE industry (not necessarily specifically for WLB reasons). Do I think it sucks that the PE industry requires so much personal sacrifice? 100%. But I'm also not so naive as to think I am (or any of us) are so amazing at our jobs that we're irreplaceable, and do need to pick which battles to fight. I also don’t think PE is the end all be all and am willing/did walk away, despite actually really loving the work itself. You just gotta be willing to vote with your feet if push came to shove.
Were you a mid level when you left? How did you decide on what to do next?
Yeah - I was an experienced mid level. Truthfully, I had to drop my ego and be willing to confront my inner most insecurities/limited beliefs/etc without any internal judgements; and was extremely honest about what I actually wanted out of life vs. what I "should" want (e.g., because of social conditioning, other peoples expectations, what's the safe route, comparing myself to others, etc). I did not consult with anyone about what I was thinking or considering. And I was 100% willing to live with whatever consequences that would come out of it because I knew I made the best decision I could at the time, knowing that there really is no such thing as the "right path" in life. And then I let life play out however it was going to play out.
More likely than not, you already know what kind of jobs you can get if you have a finance/PE background (e.g., MBA, another PE shop, corp dev, corp strategy, operations, etc). The problem probably isn't you don't know what options you have. The problem is most likely none of the options that logically make the most sense fully speak to you heart.
I know that is completely antithetical to how investors/finance people think on the job because by no means was it the "risk adjusted" way of thinking. If you want to try to risk adjust (i.e., logically plan) your way through your experience of life, by all means go for it. I'll tell you though, logic might be great for being a good investor. But it is not particularly great for experiencing purpose and joy in your life (at least you can't rely on logic alone for that). I've never heard of a single person who said "wow I'm so fulfilled in life because I played it safe". You're a unique individual, with unique goals/desires in life, and unique circumstances to have to weigh your options against. Only you can really answer what it is that you want out of life and what you want your time on earth to mean.
Definitely not the right hill to die on. You're at a new firm, and your MDs directly told you to stick around until Tuesday. Why would you go against that? Just play it cool until you build up some goodwill.
FWIW - my firm is generally more relaxed, and no one would care where you work over the holidays so long as you're getting things done. But man even still, if my partners asked me to be here for a certain day then I would be
Totally agree with this. You can generally get away with this type of thing once you have some tenure and respect at the firm, but flying out on Tuesday night is completely normal timing for most places.
This is a small thing but is one of those ridiculous ones where if you're gone those two days, the MDs may sit there and think you don't respect authority, don't have work ethic, etc. Stay back until Tuesday this year and see where you are next year
I know this may sound ridiculous, but did you specify the week of Thanksgiving or just “the holidays” in your initial request? The places I worked during my career were very laid back about this sort of thing but it was very much the norm that Monday / Tuesday and even Wednesday leading up to Thanksgiving were working days. Lots of people dipped out early on Wednesday though as few people scheduled things for Wednesday afternoon. If the firm expects you to be there Monday / Tuesday and gives you the rest of the week off, I would say that is pretty consistent with the original acceptance of saying you can spend the holidays with your family. Most office jobs I know only have Thursday / Friday off for Thanksgiving.
All that said, in today’s world of remote work and with the amount that people travel in PE on a regular basis, asking to work from the East Coast for the first few days of the week feels completely reasonable to me. I wouldn’t fight this battle if I were you, but if you must, consider telling the MD that you discussed this specific scenario with the head partner during your negotiations and were granted permission — then see how they react. I don’t suspect it will help from a professional standpoint but may reduce the pain if you really need to blow out of town for the entire week.
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