Am I the only one who thinks people in PE are absolutely insane? Working 70+ hours well into the VP years with no real vacations—how is this sustainable or even enjoyable? Call it burnout, but how do you justify the toll on your physical and mental health? For what? A flashy LinkedIn profile? Feeling like the big dog at the table? Boosting your ego while those who truly care about you just want your time? Convince me I’m wrong—help me understand the appeal because I’m struggling to justify it myself lately.
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It's a competition and we want to win. The prize for winning is pride and lots of money.
Right, I suppose that makes some sense. But then what? Okay you got your pride and you got your money. Now what?
Issue is I see too many people claim this and unfortunately end up never filling their “pride” bucket and seemingly being insecure even at the partner level and having more money than they would ever need and still working 70-80hrs per week. Sorry, but with genuine respect, I disagree and think that is sleep walking to the grave with false delusions of fulfillment. Would love to hear a strong counter if you have one. I really really want to agree with you. I just don’t see it
I think you are failing to grasp that I, and many like me, actually enjoy the work. I really honestly love it. It doesn't feel like work to me. I get a deep satisfaction, fulfillment and purpose from it in a way I recognize many others do not
its the lifestyle inflation
your line of thought can be infinitely answered with "okay, cool, then what?", not only PE.
so if you push this line to the end on any topic: love, family, social, traveling, experiences, etc. you'll realize that nothing is intrinsically meaningful or has to make sense, it's just a matter of personal preference
every one just finds a means to cope with life's meaningless and for some is PE
what's bad about people filling their existential emptiness with something different than what you fill your existential crisis with?
Maybe 20 years ago, people who are 25 today in PE will be worth a fraction of those who joined the industry 20 years ago...
It's not a human misery contest though. In my experience the biggest winners don't even have to ruin their lives to get there. The most miserable people are often miserable because they're simply not that good
Yeah I’m sure Mizuho IB is phenomenal
PE is incredibly sharp elbowed and that isn’t managed by the top of house. If from every 4 principals, 1 can get partner at that firm, then they all just spend all day with anxiety knifing each other. I worked at a “political” UMM Pe fund and the only thing I learned was how shitty people are
last thing, I saw 3 of your last posts. If you need someone to talk to, I’m happy to grab a beer if you’re in NY but seems like you’re spiraling a little
Then what do you think is a better path?
You need to decide what you want out of your life. There are good funds out there and some of my friends are very happy at their funds that aren’t MFs/UMM. Unlike IB, PE funds aren’t created equal and everyone’s experience will vary A LOT. I personally worked with a psycho vp and it ruined my life for 2 years (and frankly my career). But there are good people and I want to work with the good people.
If you don’t mind sharing, what did you do after leaving this “political” UMM shop? I think too many people stay because of a path dependency and status quo bias. With such little time its hard to pick up your head and think about what gets you truly excited and can pay the bills.
I’m less of an emotional spiraling wreck and more genuinely curious for myself and many others in my shoes to know what success outside of PE has looked like for other people. and if its staying within PE but at a less sweaty shop, would love to hear if that exists too.
I think the people who like it are either not in a harsh environment and have some breathing room in their day-to-day, or are the very passionate types that find satisfaction in being really good at the job and therefore allow it to take up 80-90% of their waking hours for decades
Sounds like you're really struggling with burnout in your current situation. I think one of the things you'll need to think about is where you stand from a health perspective, since health always comes first no matter the situation, especially physical health. And consider whether you really want to stay in the space, since if you really do hate the work you do then staying will only make you more miserable.
Coming from someone who burned out of PE in the past – it's definitely not the be-all and end-all. This forum is highly fixated on IB/PE partially due to the large amount of undergrad students who view it as the magical goal in life that will give them everything they want, but the reality of it is that the work is often hard with long hours, and workplace cultures often toxic. Sure, it pays well, but you're going to get put to the grinder to earn those dollars.
And as far as prestige goes, that's only as meaningful as brand names helping on your resume for future recruiting. Beyond that, it's simply just ego and pride for those who desire that sort of thing. Prestige isn't going to miraculously fix your body if you work to the point where you cause irreversible damage to your health.
To answer some of the other questions I've seen you posting, generally speaking cultures on the EU side of things are a bit better than the US equivalent PE firms. Hours are a little more reasonable (or as "reasonable" as you can get in this line of work, you'll still be pulling crazy times during deal sprints) and the people tend to be nicer and more approachable.
There's plenty of other things to do beyond PE – having worked in the space means that you're qualified to explore other avenues such as corporate finance/corp dev, strategic finance, even potentially strategy and ops roles within companies. Obviously the pay won't be as good but that's part of the trade-off, since these kinds of roles generally come with much better lifestyles/WLB. And long-term, if you can work your way up the corporate ladder your total earnings will still be quite sizable and nothing to sneeze at.
I've had exposure to various different areas within buyside (PE/VC/Credit) and corporate roles as well, so happy to chat if you want to learn more.
DM me, I’d take you up on that beer
If a PE fund is growing, why is there only 1 partner slot for 4 principals? Most funds I've seen have an hourglass structure with the mid-level being the most hollow, and typically more partners than principals/VPs.
People are expecting to be a principal for what, 3-4 years? Whereas they expect to be partner for 15-20+? A new partner seat opens up very infrequently unless the fund is actively growing, so those 4 principals are competing for what could be 0 seats. The fund I worked at recently rejigged their titles to effectively add in MD as a level between principals and partners. Allows 3-4 more years of dangling the partner carrot.
For the love of 💰💸💵💶💷💴🤑
love can make a person do crazy things…
My friends are all 1-2 years into VP or 3rd year associates, mostly MF, and honestly the hours are not that bad if you are not in the tech buyout pod. The VPs I'm closer with only close like 1 big deal > $500mm a year and some small add-ons. Vacations are guaranteed every summer and weekends honestly pretty free. The only thing they complain about are toxic VPs who ask for useless shit. Plus $450-600K a year is a lot to do whatever you want, refer to the NW thread.
Maybe MFs are easier lifestyle
Harder to get up the food chain in any case
What type of generalist firms do you and your friends work at? Curious for a friend
the trick is 1) don't go for the tier 1 that is bx kkr apollo hf, then 2) choose a pod/industry that is not the sexy breadwinner of the firm aka not the biggest cheques
Dude’s last few posts are a summary of my intrusive thoughts at 3am working in this industry…
Roughh sounds like a tough time
His posts are closer to truth than I’d care to admit. Lots of energy vampire VPs out there
I’ll put on my pseudo psychologist hat and bring a different perspective. When I see these posts (almost every week now), I refer back to Sayre’s law (look it up) - “In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value (consequentiality) of the issues at stake”. It goes on to say “that’s why politics in academics are so bitter [cause the stakes are so low]”.
Apply the same logic to PE. The stakes are your next promotion (important yes) but are equally if not more tied to ego, pride, titles, office politics, etc. People follow imitative behavior whether we admit it or not, our wants are in many ways influenced by what others already have or are in the process of acquiring. In an industry like PE where the wants for the many are extraordinary yet oddly uniform (your next Rolex, nice Hamptons home, elite NYC private school for the kids, Partner title) and where upward mobility gets harder as you move up, it fosters cultures of sharp elbows and fierce competition over the lowest of the low stakes at play. People will compete over anything no matter how trivial which might be self-destructive.
Besides the arguments that firm cultures are developed from the “people at the top of house, high work hour intensity”, if we take a deeper look at the wants people have and the stakes at play that explains why PE is full of psychos as you originally asked. Charlie Munger (RIP) once said “Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome.” I can’t echo enough how true and ubiquitous this is in so many situations.
Every white collar profession has some psycho personalities.
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